Who should benefit from a growing economy?
How would borrowing take homeless people off the street?
So, with that in place, do you think we should borrow more money in order to raise wages in the public sector?
Even though all the economic evidence points to the Public Sector enjoying a like for like premium of around 10%, excluding their gold plated pensions, over the private sector? A small dose of reality would do you no harm.(Where do you think it is going to come from Purple said)
The over paid private sector who are putting there own jobs and the jobs of the lower paid at risk,
Only the Public Sector can bully pay rises without any economic justification. In the Private Sector pay rises have to be earned and have to be based on economic reality. Therefore your discussion, by its very nature, is limited to the Public Sector. If a corner shop or Dry Cleaners or Cafe or small manufacturing business is hardly making enough money to fund existing levels of pay they can hardly give pay rises. If the Public Sector bully in State into giving them the €1 billion in pay increases they are looking for, and that's €1 billion every year, it will mean more income transfer from the Private Sector so less net income for those same people in the Cafes and shops.Wanted, a fourth answer to this question. Stop trying to limit the discussion to your public sector worker neighbour/friend/spouse. The topic is about wages in the round, for all workers. The topic is about the bankrupt nature of our, and developed economies and how to resolve it. As stated, I have posted a number of articles from various sources all pointing to rising incomes (particularly for low and middle income earners) as a method to returning stability. You deliberately choose to ignore these points and persist with repetitive questions about public sector pay in a vacuum.
Perhaps you could answer some questions first, as a matter of courtesy, before expecting your repeated question to be answered again and again?
Wanted, a fourth answer to this question. Stop trying to limit the discussion to your public sector worker neighbour/friend/spouse. The topic is about wages in the round, for all workers.
The topic is about the bankrupt nature of our, and developed economies and how to resolve it. As stated, I have posted a number of articles from various sources all pointing to rising incomes (particularly for low and middle income earners) as a method to returning stability. You deliberately choose to ignore these points and persist with repetitive questions about public sector pay in a vacuum.
Perhaps you could answer some questions first, as a matter of courtesy, before expecting your repeated question to be answered again and again?
In the context of general economic theory, wage increases are inflationary. Central banks around the world are trying to stoke inflation. Their primary tool is QE which is failing. It is only creating greater divides between rich and poor.
This is why property prices are rising in affluent areas of capital cities around the world, but elsewhere they are stagnant. This is why debt burdens are increasing not reducing as all money issued today is on the basis of a loan taken out rather than the value of productivity.
The quickest and fairest way to stoke inflation into developed economies is through increased wages. This will stoke inflation, increase savings and reduce debt burden.
But it will also mean a massive transfer of capital to labour. Something that right wing free market worshipping monetarists cannot countenance right now.
So instead of fixing any of that you think we should pay everyone more. Is that the case?
all means, when you have answered this, I would be more than happy to try and tease out how we can raise wages for everyone else.
I am not ignoring these points,
I would like you to answer the question above before moving on to raising wages for everyone else.
Ok, so as wages increase globally we should keep pace with them and/or we should borrow for capital investment only, not to increase wages in the public sector. Yes, I see no problem with that.The Irish government should not do this in a vacuum. But neither should it wait for it to happen (as happen it will). Interest rates are 0%, fuel is cheap, so the option of borrowing, to invest in capital infrastructure projects should commence.
If we increase public sector wages the only ways to fund it is to borrow, increase taxes or reduce services.Here is the OP again. Nowhere does it say borrow to pay public sector pay increases. That is a line being peddled by others to avoid the issue.
That is a positive only if it reduced costs in the delivery of those services by the state. If a business invests in capital or IT infrastructure it will look for a return on that investment. The return to the State has to be a reduction in costs.If you want to discuss micro elements of it, here is one option. The government borrows €2m for a capital spending on an IT project that will be used by a good department to provide on-line services to the public. The project will be tendered to the private market giving a boost to local indigenous IT companies that employ IT contractors. The successful company offers markets rates of pay to prospective candidates. If demand exceeds supply, wages will rise.
Here is the OP again. Nowhere does it say borrow to pay public sector pay increases. That is a line being peddled by others to avoid the issue.
Why are you discussing increased wages for public sector workers first, then pay increases for everyone else later? Who mentioned that?
No, I want there to be a time limit on that safety, after which it reduces to a minimal level.Have a small dose of reality ,Who wanted to cut the safety net for people in the private sector who lost there jobs.
Yes, emergency taxes should be removed before pay increases are given.Who wanted to do away with the USC giving a pay increase to public servents on D stamp,
I don’t understand this point.Who has being shouting about having a system like they have in the HSE in there work place.
I don’t understand this point. Am I talking down the people who pay my wages?Who has being talking down to the very people who pay There wages.
Who has being talking down there fellow tradesmem. I better stop .
You have proposed that wages should increase. I am asking how.
I think it's logical to start with the largest employer in the state....i
promise to answer each and all the questions you have asked once you answer my question.
wage increases should not occur in a vaccum. Or to put it another way, we shouldn't borrow to increase wages per se, or to put it another way, we shouldn't borrow to increase wages in the flat terms that you have presented here.
None of the products are made in Ireland
Is that the best you can do?You say one thing, these people say another
who are we to believe?
we should borrow for capital investment only, not to increase wages in the public sector. Yes, I see no problem with that.
If we increase public sector wages the only ways to fund it is to borrow, increase taxes or reduce services.
That is a positive only if it reduced costs in the delivery of those services by the state. If a business invests in capital or IT infrastructure it will look for a return on that investment. The return to the State has to be a reduction in costs.
Ok, we should borrow more money in order to pay state employees to provide more or better services. That's just borrowing to run the country. We already do that in spades.That is, no we shouldn't borrow €500 simply to give someone a pay rise. We should borrow to generate fiscal stimulus, like an IT program or develop a homeless strategy. Both will put money in workers pockets, fuelling demand, in turn, employment, in turn increased wages.
Instead we have QE to repair the balance sheets of bankrupt banks, in turn to offer lending to consumers for profit, at considerably higher rates than 0%. Inducing more debt overhang. A system that is broken.
But that's not the same as funding homeless services and you want to borrow to do that.That is the point from the get go. As demand is fuelled, employment, wages will rise (without identifying any particular sector, but in general terms).
Because they will not increase as a result of a fiscal stimulus. They increase when the Unions put a gun to the head of the people of Ireland.Why do you keep resorting to public sector wages only?
No, the saving would be a reduction in headcount in the State agency or Department which delivers the service. If you are suggesting that then we are in agreement.Agreed. And a simple saving could be, that as a particular service is now on-line, this will reduce demand on fuel costs for people travelling, in turn reducing carbon emissions, in turn contributing to the State meeting its carbon quota without penalty.
BS, can you clarify if that Fiscal
Is that the best you can do?
You are either being utterly disingenuous by ignoring the fact that cars, TV's, iPads, Phones, really just about every consumer good we buy is imported or you are suggesting that the state borrow billions in order to allow us to drink more.
But that's not the same as funding homeless services and you want to borrow to do that.
Because they will not increase as a result of a fiscal stimulus. They increase when the Unions put a gun to the head of the people of Ireland.
No, the saving would be a reduction in headcount in the State agency or Department which delivers the service. If you are suggesting that then we are in agreement.
That is, no we shouldn't borrow €500 simply to give someone a pay rise.
We should borrow to generate fiscal stimulus, like an IT program or develop a homeless strategy. Both will put money in workers pockets, fuelling demand, in turn, employment, in turn increased wages.
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