Is industrial action the only way of setting pay disputes?

[Brendan Burgess]

Back in the 19th Century when there was no legislation protecting employees and they could be dismissed at will or locked out as a group, the ability to strike gave the workers some bargaining power.

But do we really need strikes now?

Employees are very well protected by a raft of legislation including Unfair Dismissals, anti-discrimination measures, etc.

Civil disputes in all other areas are resolved by some independent party - a court, an ombudsman or planning authority.

Why do we not have an independent body that decides on industrial disputes?

The employees want 30%. The employer doesn't want to pay anything. The arbitrator decides: 10%. As in any dispute, one side will not be happy with the outcome but it protects consumers.

The employees have the upper hand anyway. If they are not happy with the pay award, they can switch jobs. The employers can't decide to dismiss them and hire cheaper employees.

Brendan

 

[arbitron]

But do we really need strikes now?

Employees are very well protected by a raft of legislation including Unfair Dismissals, anti-discrimination measures, etc.

Civil disputes in all other areas are resolved by some independent party - a court, an ombudsman or planning authority.

Why do we not have an independent body that decides on industrial disputes?

Why are the HSE still forcing some doctors to work 24-hour shifts? That has been against EU and Irish law for over 20 years.

The last doctor strike was settled when the HSE agreed to limit shifts to "only" 24 hours... which they have subsequently ignored in many hospitals.

Not to mention recent examples of more minor but still serious issues like non-payment of overtime, delayed payments, etc. etc.

The employees want 30%. The employer doesn't want to pay anything. The arbitrator decides: 10%. As in any dispute, one side will not be happy with the outcome but it protects consumers.

The employees have the upper hand anyway. If they are not happy with the pay award, they can switch jobs. The employers can't decide to dismiss them and hire cheaper employees.

Not true if the government is a de facto monopoly employer, e.g. non-consultant doctors.

I'm using doctors as an example because that's what I'm familiar with but you can bet there are worse cases in other industries.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Not true if the government is a de facto monopoly employer, e.g. non-consultant doctors.

The HSE might be the biggest employer but presumably doctors are very employable elsewhere.

Brendan

 

[Sophrosyne]

Media reporting of disputes is often unsatisfactory.

Reports, particularly of major industrial disputes, tend to concentrate on how the public is affected, with scant detail about how the dispute arose.

I usually look at sites, such as the Workplace Relations Commission, to obtain a timeline of a dispute and to be better informed, because I am not getting it from the media.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Reports, particularly of major industrial disputes, tend to concentrate on how the public is affected,

Certainly that is what concerns me most.

I am worried that my holiday will be ruined by the WTR by pilots. I am not terribly worried about why they are paid only €200k a year.

But I would have every confidence that an independent body could decide what the appropriate salary for them is.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I am all in favour of more practical and inventive ways of solving disputes rather than letting them drag on indefinitely.

 

[arbitron]

The HSE might be the biggest employer but presumably doctors are very employable elsewhere.

Brendan

For the first 4-10 years of your career you are employed but still in postgraduate training and the HSE is the only employer. There is a single national non-consultant hospital doctor contract. Once you are finished then you can go and do private practice or move abroad.

Even at consultant level we saw James Reilly make swingeing unilateral pay cuts for new consultants which has only recently been resolved but will have ramifications for years/decades.

 

[Sophrosyne]

For the first 4-10 years of your career you are employed but still in postgraduate training and the HSE is the only employer. There is a single national non-consultant hospital doctor contract.

That's one example of information you don't get from the media.

 

[arbitron]

That's one example of information you don't get from the media.

Also you can't get a permanent contract until you are a consultant. So you have people in late 30s with kids still on 12-month contracts.

 

[mathepac]

What about private hospitals or does the ubiquitous "HSE contract" apply there as well?

 

[Dr Strangelove]

But I would have every confidence that an independent body could decide what the appropriate salary for them is.

What if they don't like the salary an independent body sets?

Pilots are just trying to squeeze the maximum they can from the system like everyone else.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

What if they don't like the salary an independent body sets?

I might not like the decision that a court makes. I might not like the decision that An Bord Pleanála makes. I might not like the decision that the Financial Ombudsman makes. But I get on with my life.

The employer is stuck with the decision if they don't like it. At least the employee can change jobs if they don't like it.

Brendan

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The employer is stuck with the decision if they don't like it. At least the employee can change jobs if they don't like it.

Is that actually true? Is the outcome of an agreed arbitration process legally binding on one party but not the other?

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Just to be clear. I am suggesting that is the way it should be and not the way it is.

Either side can ignore a recommendations from the WRC.

I am suggesting that there should be arbitration not recommendation so the findings would be binding.

Brendan

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Just to be clear. I am suggesting that is the way it should be and not the way it is.

Either side can ignore a recommendations from the WRC.

I am suggesting that there should be arbitration not recommendation so the findings would be binding.

Brendan

I get it now. Your point is that employees can walk.

 

[Salvadore]

But I would have every confidence that an independent body could decide what the appropriate salary for them is.

An independent body (probably publicly funded) determining the pay of private sector interests would create a whole world of problems that would have far greater consequences beyond someone’s holiday plans.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

determining the pay of private sector interests

The Low Pay Commission already de facto sets the national minimum wage which applies to tens of thousands of exclusively private sector workers.

 

[Salvadore]

The Low Pay Commission already de facto sets the national minimum wage which applies to tens of thousands of exclusively private sector workers.

That’s a floor, not a ceiling. I don’t think a Maximum Wage Commission would be as universally acceptable.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

An independent body (probably publicly funded) determining the pay of private sector interests would create a whole world of problems that would have far greater consequences beyond someone’s holiday plans.

Could you list out some of them?

 

[Salvadore]

Could you list out some of them?

Well for a start, as a matter of principle, people should be able to negotiate their own remuneration without having it set by the state. The state shouldn’t have a role in determining individuals’ value to prospective employers. Any such attempts would have far greater IR consequences than occasional strikes.

The right to take industrial action was a hard-won battle. It shouldn’t be surrendered just because it’s occasionally inconvenient.

And if we get to the point where the State tells us how much we can earn, why stop there? Why not impose a range of other restrictions of freedom in the name of societal protection.