Is a legal adviser needed in Ireland too?

G

geordie

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I'd like some opinions on legal advice please. Obviously sourcing independent legal representation in the country where you purchase is vital because the relevant legal jurisdiction is the foreign country not Ireland. Therefore, what is the point of having a legal representative in Ireland as well? As long as I get dual language contracts etc Obviously some Irish companies have connections with lawyers in other countries, but it seems you are paying twice and at the Irish levels too. Any thoughts would be much appreciated because I think if I ensure I source a good solicitor in the countries I buy then I don't need one here.

Thanks,

Geordie.
 
I've never heard of people needing a solicitor here if they have one in the other country. The message is always to get an independent lawyer "over there". If you are re-mortgaging here to raise the finance then that might be a reason to have one.
 
One point is perhaps to look at wills - you may need wills in both countries that tie in - for example in France the family law only allows you to leave certain assets (including property) in a certain way, which is different under Irish law. One should therefore have wills in both countries.

Also, have you considered the tax implications, which will be different in both countires (especially if you are renting the property)?
 
Yes I have the taxes covered thanks, did that first, and do have foreign solicitors, but I am questioning the need for Irish solicitor's too, though that is what I have been advised to do freinds.
 
Hi Georgie,

As mentioned in Domos post it is essential in relation to setting up wills in foreign countries. If this is not needed (which it is in a lot of cases) then you are correct in saying that you are paying extra for you Irish Legal Presentation. Many overseas property buyers do however feel more at ease if they know there is an office in Ireland they can visit rather than having to travel abroad. Secondly, if the Irish company is reputable one would imagine that they have done a due diligence on the foreign lawyer.
 
That's helpful thanks, do you know if a will is needed to be drawn up for investments in Poland and Germany and would I need an Irish solicitor too?
 
I have seen some bad advice given by Irish legal advisors with regards to overseas property purchases. At best, getting Irish advice is a complete waste of time. On the issue of wills, any competent lawyer in another country can advise on the best approach; in my experience the local lawyers are the only ones that understand the local laws.

Much of the furore around Irish lawyers getting involved in foreign property deals is simply hype by the Irish legal profession who cast envious eyes on the fees that are going to foreign lawyers. A lot of the fear of foreign lawyers in my view is created by the Irish legal profession, but why on earth would anyone pay a lawyer from Cork to advise on a conveyace in Malaga? In addition to the local lawyer's expertise, they usually have an inside track on local developers and can warn prospective buyers off bad projects.
 
That's helpful thanks Auto, I am trying to protect myself, but it does seem that Irish based legal advisers just have a list of boxes they ensure are ticked, but these do seem to be fairly important boxes at that . I know people who have run into problems with overseas solicitors in the past so it seems that at least if I have an Irish solictor checking it out and dealing with the foreign solicitor then it is their PI on the line. Also, by using the Irish solicitors who have connections overseas, even though it may be the foreign solicitor doing most of the work, at least I know they are reputable and have a track record because the Irish company works with them before.

Thanks,

G
 
If you go to a reputable law firm in any country, then you will have no problems. If in doubt, ask the commercial attache in the Irish or UK embassy for a list (although these tend to be the high-end legal firms and can cost more). There is a myth out there (often perpetuated by Irish lawyers) that lawyers in other countries are somehow less qualified or less regulated, which is rubbish.

Irish law firms that pretend to have expertise in overseas markets are usually just engaged in a subcontracting operation to law firms in the target country, often through an additional middleman in the UK where this kind of racket originated. I know of one Irish guy who had a legal problem in Spain that needed sorting out fairly quickly. He already had a good lawyer in Spain, but was scared by the hype into engaging an Irish law firm that purported to have Spanish expertise. They subcontracted to a London firm who then subcontracted to a firm in Madrid who in turn subcontracted to his own original Spanish lawyer, but at twice the rate originally quoted by the original lawyer. Neither the Irish law firm nor the Madrid firm had any knowledge of the local situation, they were just cashing in on the client's fears. In fact, he went with the original deal with the local lawyer and cut out the middlemen.

I have no real problem with people paying twice for the service if that is what they want to do, and Irish lawyers have to live too! My problem is the bad advice thet Irish lawyers can and do give to Irish clients, and their absolute lack of local knowledge of developers etc. In addition, they do not have any knowledge of the law or the legal system in the target countries, nor could they be expected to.

If you look at this the other way round you will see the logic of it. If you were a Hungarian from Budapest and you wanted to buy a house in Carlow, would you use a Budapest law firm to do the conveyamce or a Carlow based lawyer? Of course you would use the latter; he or she would know all the planning issues and legal questions around a local project, and conversely the Budapest lawyer would be lost. The Carlow lawyer would also know the land and the developer, and would be able to advise you of problems that might not immediately be obvious.

Still, there is no doubt that the practice of using Irish law firms is a good way to allow the Irish legal profession to share in the bonanza of irish buyers investing abroad, and sure they have to get a slice of the action too! If they simply added a cost it would be ok, but they introduce delays and the possibility of confusion with too many layers in the picture. Best to go direct to the source.
 
Hi Auto,

The advice about asking the embassies is a great one; I don't mind paying for a good solictor if it means I get reassured that my investment is safe. I appreciate what your saying about turning it around, but the when investing Ireland or the UK you're investing a more mature market, I still feel unsure about going it alone in with a solitor in an emerging market, whereas I would feel more confident in countries in Scandinavia or Germany as long as the solicitor is independent of the developer or vendor.

Thanks,

G
 
No matter who you engage to do the job, it will be a lawyer in the emerging country that actually does it anyway. Better always to talk directly to him or her, not through someone else where information can get mixed up. Lawyers have to have the necessary training and be registered in all markets, and in my experience you are no more lilkely to encounter a duff lawyer in other countries than you are here.
 
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