(Ir)Relevance of Race in Crime Reporting

extopia: annabels case. funny how the only conviction didn't relate to 'leafy' south dublin suburbs or am I alone on that one?
also when the ra were killing one and all down the north rte always added the rider ' the victim was not a member of the security forces' therby distinguising the killing of ruc officers from people who happened to be in the wrong place.

cuchulainn said:

extopia: annabels case. funny how the only conviction didn't relate to 'leafy' south dublin suburbs or am I alone on that one?

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Yes - but don't forget that the killer(s) is (are) still at large as far as I recall from the case and the convictions that arose from it.

Cuchulainn, you are certainly not alone in your observation. I think the above respondent missed your point.

Kildrought, what would you think are relevant facts in the interest of telling the "whole story"? Imagine the RTE (or Irish Times/Indo correspondent) said this:

"The victim was white, but it is not yet known if she was a prostitute."

extopia said:

Imagine the RTE (or Irish Times/Indo correspondent) said this:

"The victim was white, but it is not yet know if she was a prostitute."

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Or go wild with your imagination - imagine if the Indo correspondant said something like "the passenger was a teenage prostitute with no luggage that he had just picked up in the red light district".

delgirl said:

IMHO, I don't think they're suggesting that the crime had something to do with her nationality or ethnic origin - I think they're merely trying to identify her.

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MissRibena said:

I wonder if this is some kind of hypersensitivity on our collective behalf

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I'd have to agree with these comments. I think some people may read to much in to such reporting.

Well it appears that neither the victim nor the person who walked into the Gardai and presented himself for questioning are non nationals. Regardless of whether it was the Gardai or the media who questioned the nationality of the victim, it has turned out to be an irrelevant detail.

extopia said:

Well it appears that neither the victim nor the person who walked into the Gardai and presented himself for questioning are non nationals. Regardless of whether it was the Gardai or the media who questioned the nationality of the victim, it has turned out to be an irrelevant detail.

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Indeed. When all facts are known on any such matter it becomes clear which details were, and which were not, relevant. You can't know for sure, before then, which details would not prove relevant.

And in the Annabel nightclub case, constant reference was made to the "leafy South Dublin suburbs" which were home to the accused. This, I presume, to distinguish them from the more "normal" suspects from the concrete wastelands of the Northside...

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Remember Journalists are very good at one thing. What is it?

Getting Facts right. NO
Selling Papers, or Selling Radio or TV Airtime. That's it.

If they report yet another murder in Dublin, no-one gives a damn.
Do you sit up and listen to every story about a murder. Hell no, they're
two-a-penny. The fact that we no longer care deeply about individual murders is as shocking as the murders themselves used to be.

40 Years ago there was a Murder near my fathers house in Rural Ireland. People cycled from all over the country to see the Murder House. It was shocking. Now it would get one nights mention on the News and then be forgotten.

So how do the media take a normal boring murder and turn it into a Media Story with some legs. Because let's be clear, THAT IS ALL THEY CARE ABOUT.

One way is to distinguish the murder from others. Was it committed by a group of Wealthy Young Lads from the Leafy Suburbs? Excellent that's good for a couple of weeks of News and More still when the Trial Starts.

Was it committed by the Wife to get or hand on the Husbands Money.
Fantastic, a bit of Soap Opera.

Was it committed by or against a Foreign National. Excellent, the Racists will tune in to have their bigoted views vindicated and the Anti-Racists will tune in to make sure the coverage is blanced.

It's all a bit sickening, but that's the Media. And somewhere out there there are people buying their muck, so more more get's made to meet the demand.

-Rd

Couldn't agree more Rd.

I'm curious daltonr what exactly do you think the media should report on such cases. Should they provide no details and simply print a generic column inch 'An unnamed person has been found dead at an undisclosed location and may or may not have been unlawfully killed by person(s) unknown/undisclosed', or maybe just not report these things at all. Also, I don't understand this knee jerk reaction that some people have anytime race or nationality are mentioned that it's must be some form of latent racism.

I'm curious daltonr what exactly do you think the media should report on such cases.

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First of all they should report verified facts not theories pieced together from the bits of Police Reports that they can make to fit some fanciful story that would be great News if it were True. Like turning Interpreters into Prostitutes and then making up as many bits of supporting evidence as they need to make it sound credible.

If they are extrapolating a story out of nothing then it should not be presented as fact.

In the Aftermath of the Liam Lawlor reporting there was an interview with the Uncle (I think) of a man shot dead in Kilkenny. He read the Independant's report on the incident and shredded it live on air. Every single statement line by line was incorrect. Some of the error's were just hard to believe they were so basic. The description of the Incident, the background story, everything was completely false.

or maybe just not report these things at all

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Not at all would be preferable to getting it completely wrong, but I'm diverting to false reporting rather than reporting unnecessary detail.

If a body is found in a suitcase, I don't care whether it's an Irish National, a Legal Immigrant, an Illegal Immigrant, Black, White, Yellow, Green, or Polkadot. (OK if a Polkadot person is found in a Suitcase I might be interested).

If the Police ask for help identifying the body then these issues become relevant.

I'm reminded of David Norris' tactic a few years ago, tired of being described as Homosexual Senator David Norris, he began referring to Politians, Church Leaders, etc, etc, as Hetrosexual Bishop Joe Bloggs, or Hetrosexual TD Joe Bloggs, etc.

I didn't suggest above that the Media's mentioning of Race is itself racist, I think they are simply subtley using Race to sell papers.

When the characteristic being reported is material to the story then it's fine. A Bus Driver making racist comments to a passenger, a person attacked because they are Gay.

When characteristic's of a person are discussed that are not material to the case then we have to ask why they are in the story.

-Rd

If you or I wan't to relate an incident when we get home, we'll say.... I saw a woman do this, or I saw a Man do that. It's a valid way to refer to someone in the third person.

I think Hair Colour or Eye Colour would be a better analogy with Skin Colour than Gender is. When was the last time you heard or read a report that "A Blonde woman with Blue Eyes was found dead"?

-Rd

I was just trying to explore your point. If you feel that any mention of nationality, race or ethnic background is at best irrelevant and at worst racist then you could go on to say that any mention gender or age is at best irrelevant and at worst sexist or ageist.

I was just trying to explore your point.

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No problem, it's an interesting issue particularly given recent calls for a Press Council.

I don't think mentioning Race in a report is Racist in itself. For the most part when Race or nationality is mentioned I don't even have a problem with it. I would have a problem if there was any unfounded implication that Nationality or Race was a factor in the Crime. Or as happened in New Orleans White people "find" supplies and black people "Loot" them.

As I mentioned above I think the primary motivation for editors and journalists is to sell newspapers. Their words are carefully chosen, but I don't think that mention of Race or Nationality is necessarily a sign of Racism.

Newspaper editors might not be great at getting facts right, but they sure know what sells. So the real question is....Why does mention of Race sell? Why does mention of Hair Colour, or Eye Colour not sell, but mention of skin colour does?

-Rd