(Ir)Relevance of Race in Crime Reporting

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extopia

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For the past couple of days the Irish media have been reporting on the violent death of a woman found in Dublin City Centre. Almost all reports contain wording such as "it is not known whether the victim was an Irish or foreign national."

What is the relevance of ethnic origin in such cases? Does it somehow have a bearing on the issue? It's not as if there is any known correlation between ethnic origin and propensity to murder or be murdered. Drawing attention to ethnic origin where it is irrelevant is prejudice, whether intended or not.

The media in most diverse societies know this and journalists there are trained to stick to the relevant facts in reporting stories. It's about time we started waking up to this in Ireland.
 
It is extremely relevant today for them to mention her skin colour along with her approx age, height, hair colour etc as they are appealing to the public to contact them if they know anyone of that description who is missing.
 
That's a different issue, an appeal from the Gardai for information.

I'm talking about the media reports of the original incident. It's not the same thing, in my opinion.
 
The Gardai may have framed their press releases using this information in the hope of a response from the public, as they couldn't find a crime scene and didn't know who she was. I have no idea of whether this is the case but at least it is possible.
 
Sometimes the gardai feel certain things are important to note as they may help jog certain memories to assist in solving the crime. Do you ever see on Crimecall when they are looking for info. on a crime. they keep mentioning the victims name as this personalises the event and makes more people come forward who otherwise may not have. They also keep repeating things like "where you at x place this night" or "it was raining very badly this night, did you see X"? In most cases the media are prepped on what to release to the public.


On the other hand I hate when crimes are reported in such a way as the race of the person is mentioned when really itsn't necessary. As in, a post office was robbed yesterday. The robber was apprehended and arrested, he was a foreign national.
 
Race and Nationality are not neccessarily the same thing.

[size=-1]Nationality is, in English usage, the legal relationship between a person and a country. Where the country only has one legal system, this represents the common perception, but where the country is federated into separate states, different rules apply. Upon birth, every person acquires a domicile. This is the relationship between a person and a specific legal system. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality


[/size][size=-1]A race is a distinct population of humans distinguished in some way from other humans. The most widely observed races are those based on skin color, facial features, ancestry, and genetics. Conceptions of race, as well as specific racial groupings, are often controversial due to their impact on social identity hence identity politics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race

[/size][size=-1]An ethnic group is a group of people who identify with one another, or are so identified by others, on the basis of a boundary that distinguishes them from other groups. This boundary may take any of a number of forms -- racial, cultural, linguistic, economic, religious, political -- and may be more or less porous. Because of this boundary, members of an ethnic group are often presumed to be culturally or biologically similar, although this is not in fact necessarily the case.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity[/size]
[size=-1]


ajapale
[/size]
 
Quite right, ajapale. I should have been more specific.

If race, nationality or ethnic origin (or any other personal detail, for that matter) are completely irelevant to the story being reported, they should not be mentioned at all. To do so is to imply that the race, nationality, ethnic origin etc. of the victim or perpetrator had something to do with the crime. Unless this is a reasonable assumption, it should not be reported as it only serves to feed prejudice.
 
My first instinct is to agree with extopia on this. I've often found the mentioning of someone's ethnicity or nationality jarring in reports where it seems completely irrelevant.

On the other hand, I wonder if this is some kind of hypersensitivity on our collective behalf; do we project our own prejudices onto the new reports, even when we are trying our best to be completely objective. When the Italian student was attacked in Fairview, nobody commented that his nationality was mentioned over and over again (to the extent that I remember it even now). Nobody felt it was relevant or irrelevant, it was just a fact. If he was, say, Nigerian or "Eastern European" (I particularly dislike when they refer to people's ethnicity by saying "African" or "Eastern European" - if you don't know where they were from, shut up about it), our ears prick up; some of us in a protective way wanting equal treatment for foreigners and some of us in a more prejudiced way. It's an interesting point to consider. I suspect that the roots for us picking up on these descriptions are related to difference and theories of The Other (which I only know a little bit about and would love to know where to find more thorough discussions); but is generally related to who we consider to be "one of us" and who we don't. I think this kind of thing was highlighted particularly in the case where the dismembered body of a black man was found in the canal and early reports mentioned some kind of "ritual" killing but then later Irish women were questioned. Are we supposed to be shocked/interested that they were Irish, or women or what?

Another example is if the gender of a victim of crime is mentioned (all of these being examples outside of Garda appeals for info), nobody sees it as anything other than a statement of fact even if the only relevant matter is that a person was killed/whatever; or do they. I suspect that people do attach a kind of hierarchy to crimes and that we do creative narratives, perhaps subconsciously, to even the most detached reporting. I think that deep-down, even if I know it is irrational and I try not to, my first instinct is that a murder of a woman is somehow a "worse"/more shocking crime and conversely,I think I feel the rape of a man is somehow worse, eventhough it clearly isn't. Maybe it's to do with the level of instances of crime where gender is involved, I don't really know.

It's a really fascinating topic though.

Rebecca
 
MissRibena said:
On the other hand, I wonder if this is some kind of hypersensitivity on our collective behalf;
Click to expand...

I agree with Rebecca about the hypersensitivity. Why shouldn't they report the nationality of the victim / perpetrator or of anyone else depicted in any type of news story? Isn't it just part of the general background infomation given on any incident?

Surely their nationality is part of 'who they are', as is age, gender etc., and there is no reason this should be withheld.

For example, the recent report on two insurgents caught in Iraq wouldn't have had the same interest / meaning if the fact that they were apparently Irish citizens had been omitted.
 
I don't think that it's fair to dismiss as hypersensitivity the belief that the reporting of certain details (e.g. race, nationality, sexual orientation, age etc.) is irrelevant in certain contexts even if it is relevant in others!
 
I don't think anyone is dismissing it. I definitely still bristle when this kind of information is included but the topic can definitely be examined a lot deeper than to imply that irrelevant details should be omitted. Because, how is it decided what is relevant and what is not. When there is a murder, you never hear simply that a person was killed. So we seem to be ok with certain details being given (usually gender and age) but not ok with other details (e.g. nationality - but I contend that we notice the nationality more when the person is not from "The West"). Nobody calls it prejudiced when reports are given of a French woman, an Italian student, as I mentioned. Also, you often hear reports saying how many children a victim or perpetrator has; how relevant are these details either. Obvioulsy its more tragic for the children of a murdered father (for example), but do we value the life of a father more than that of a childless man?

I just think there's more to this issue than meets the eye.

Rebecca
 
In terms of a crime being reported, Nationality/Race/Ethnic grouping is fair comment and I don't have a problem with it being reported.

In the social/work arena, unless it's relevant, I tend to leave it out. I don't like being defined solely by the fact that I'm a lone parent (as an example) and I pretty much assume that others don't like being defined by one aspect of themselves; be that being one-legged, Muslim, Gay or whatever you're having yourself.
 
Hi Kildrought,
If it's inappropriate in the social/work arena, why would you think these details are "fair comment" in the case of a crime report?
 
This reminds me to a couple of things ..

- when the Irish Times publishes a story that features a woman, they often (more so than they would a man in the same context) give her age. Why ?
- a few years ago, in the Philip Sheedy case, he was usually referred to as "architect Philip Sheedy". Why ? Was this to distinguish from any other Philip Sheedy. And NO, I am not an architect (not even in the George Costanza sense).
 
Right. And white collar criminals especially tax evaders are often referred to as "businessmen" as if that explains anything. You could describe a drug dealer as a businessman with equal accuracy.

And in the Annabel nightclub case, constant reference was made to the "leafy South Dublin suburbs" which were home to the accused. This, I presume, to distinguish them from the more "normal" suspects from the concrete wastelands of the Northside...
 
I know that the army are very sore about suspects and criminals being referred to an 'ex soldier'. Sometimes the individual may have left the army over 20 years ago.
 
extopia said:
This, I presume, to distinguish them from the more "normal" suspects from the concrete wastelands of the Northside...
Click to expand...
I resent being compared to Southside toffs! :mad:

;)
 
In tonight's RTE 9 o clock news, the racial question was raised again:

The gist of it was something like "The victim was white, but it's not known if she was a foreign national."

Do we really need to be reminded by RTE that not all immigrants are non-white? Or that not all white women in Ireland are Irish?

Again, there's a suggestion that this crime MAY have had something to do with the woman's ethnic origin/race/nationality, (and that by implication it stands apart from purely "Irish" murders) despite the fact that the police still do not have a shred of evidence.
 
IMHO, I don't think they're suggesting that the crime had something to do with her nationality or ethnic origin - I think they're merely trying to identify her.

They probably initially thought she was Irish, but when they found no-one with a similar description on the Guards missing persons list and no-one came forward to identify her, the Guards are possibly now thinking on the lines that she may be a foreign national working / living / holidaying in Ireland and have issued a press release outlining this theory to the media in the hope that someone will guess who she is.

I suppose we all process information in different ways, perhaps it has to do with life experiences or sensitivity to certain issues? I didn't think for one minute that they were suggesting she was killed because of her origins.
 
In terms of a crime (or any other report) I would have thought that getting all the facts was a facet of good journalism.

I actually didn't say that reference to these details was inappropriate in a social or work context - depending on the context it may in fact be entirely appropriate
(remember the Peter Cook/Dudley Moore sketch about the one-legged man auditioning for a part as a Tarzan!) - just that I don't like being defined by one aspect of my life (e.g. the fact that I'm a lone parent), and I tend towards the assumption that others don't either.
 
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