Investing in Great Britain/Northern Ireland

[richdylan2]

Im a smalltime developer justing starting to build up some capital after building and developing a few properties. I now have about €40k cash to put down on a house which should get me an ok mortgage but it wont be enough to buy and develop in Dublin. It seems Cork and Galway are getting as expensive. To learn more about other markets I am considering buying a 'doer upper' in one of the northern cities in the UK as the markets there seem more bouyant than the south and in addition they can be purchased for as little as 80k stg. Belfast is another place with great growth prospects in the next few years with the redevelopment of the city centre. Anybody got any thoughts on where would be best from experience?

 

[Jazz]

Forestside area in South Belfast

South Belfast is generally regarded as being the more "upmarket" section of Belfast.

The Forestside Shopping Centre is in south Belfast, and has Sainsburys, and Marks & Spencers there.

Around this recently built shopping centre is a good spot, and has seen property prices rising quite rapidly around there, as it's also on a main road going straight to the city centre which is only 2 miles away.

 

[richdylan2]

Northern Ireland

Thanks Jazz, appreciate the tip. Will check it out.

 

[Jazz]

Forestside Area of Belfast

Ok Dylan!

There's a lot more development still going on there. I've heard there's permission currently being sought to build another store in the area. I think it's a Tesco's store this time.

Also, in case you're wondering, that area is also probably one of the quietest areas in Belfast. It's a "mixed" area.

 

[Mark Johnson]

Re: Investing in the Uk or Northern Ireland

Is the title of this thread a trick question?

 

[doberden]

Re: Investing in the Uk or Northern Ireland

I know a excellent property locator up north but he focusses on the cheaper areas of belfast that have very good rental. pm me if anyone wants details.

 

[ClubMan]

Re: Investing in the Uk or Northern Ireland

Is the title of this thread a trick question?

I've changed the thread title to reflect what I presume was the intention of the query.

 

[Mark Johnson]

Re: Investing in the UK including Northern Ireland

May I recommend the website [broken link removed] which seems to be a very good and fully comprehensive Website providing a full breakdown of all the UK regions (including maps) for investment purposes..................

Re: thread title (Thanks Clubman, thats exactly what I was talking about), although you could have made the thread title even more concise by just saying: Investing in the UK

 

[jonnyhotspur]

Re: Investing in the UK including Northern Ireland

Investing in Great Britain & Northern Ireland.
Reads much better and gets the point accross.

 

[Glenbhoy]

although you could have made the thread title even more concise by just saying: Investing in the UK

But given the wild diversity in property appreciation rates between Britain and Northern Ireland, Clubman's title was probably more appropriate.

 

[steveyd]

What are the stamp duty implications for buying in Northern Ireland? I.e do we only pay the stamp duty using the much lower UK rates?

How would rental income work on our income tax liablilites? would inocme tax be paid to the UK authorities?

 

[Glenbhoy]

stamp duty is paid in NI, rates are easily found with a quick search - rates are pretty low and tthresholds are high - not remotely comparable to here.
Re rental income, you would probably pay tax in both places with a credit given here for the tax paid in NI - don't know what way the interest relief would work, probably only a deduction for NI tax purposes (but no idea really).

 

[RedMadra]

I recently asked the same question of her majesty’s revenue & customs and got the following reply:

In general, income arising from sources within the UK to a non-resident individual remains liable to UK tax.
Rents paid to a landlord whose usual place of abode is abroad must generally be paid under deduction of tax, at the basic rate (currently 22%). The landlord can however apply to receive the rents gross, and would then settle any liability directly with the Revenue, via Self Assessment. Booklet IR140 () and form NRL1 () refer.
Expenses incurred wholly and exclusively in the letting business will be allowable against rents received whether they are incurred in the UK or abroad. For further guidance on this subject please refer to H M Revenue & Customs Property Income Manual at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pimmanual/index.htm, and in particular the instructions at PIM2100+.
TRADING ASSETS
If the asset to be disposed of is held in connection with a business or trade carried out in the UK, then any gain would be chargeable whether you are resident here or not.
It is unusual for a rental business to amount to a trade, but it can do, as in hotel and guest house businesses, for example. See our online Property Income Manual paragraph PIM4300 at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pimmanual/PIM4300.htm
PERSONAL ASSETS
If the disposal is made in the non-resident period of the year of departure from the UK, it will give rise to a potential charge to Capital Gains Tax for the year of assessment.
If you left the UK before 17 March 1998 and the disposal is made during a year throughout which you are treated as not resident and not ordinarily resident, there will be no liability to UK Capital Gains Tax. But, if the disposal is made during the non-resident period of the year of return to the UK and the period of non-residence does not amount to at least five full tax years, there will be a potential charge to Capital Gains Tax for that year.
If you left the UK on or after 17 March 1998 and the disposal is made during a year throughout which you are treated as not resident and not ordinarily resident or, during the non-resident period of the year of return to the UK and, the period of non-residence does not cover at least five full tax years, this will also give rise to a potential charge to Capital Gains Tax. Gains for any of these years are aggregated and charged for the year of arrival, with only one annual CGT exemption.
Otherwise, the disposal by an individual not resident and not ordinarily resident will not be liable to Capital Gains Tax in the UK.
Further information about liability to Capital Gains Tax and temporary absences from the UK can be found in Self-Assessment helpsheet IR278 - 2004-05 version is at
and chapter 8 of booklet IR20 at
CALCULATION
If a charge to Capital Gains Tax does arise, the gain will be treated as the top slice of your income and charged at tax rates of, 10%, 20% and 40%. The annual exemption applicable to the year in which the gain is assessable will apply (£8,500 for 2005-06).
Working out the amount chargeable to CGT and how much tax you have to pay, is covered in Sections 9 and 10 of booklet CGT1 at
I am unable to comment on any liability you may have to tax in Ireland. That is a matter you will need to pursue with the relevant Irish authorities.

 

[Marie]

Any profits from letting property situated in the UK is taxable in the UK even for non-UK residents. You are liable to Capital Gains Tax in the UK on disposal of your investment property.

 

[badabing]

You are liable to Capital Gains Tax in the UK on disposal of your investment property.

Not if you're an Irish resident, isn't that why so many Irish pension funds are buying UK proprty. Your gains are taxed in Ireland at the lower Irish rates afaik. Can someone calrify this for me please?

 

[Glenbhoy]

If the disposal is made in the non-resident period of the year of departure from the UK, it will give rise to a potential charge to Capital Gains Tax for the year of assessment.
If you left the UK before 17 March 1998 and the disposal is made during a year throughout which you are treated as not resident and not ordinarily resident, there will be no liability to UK Capital Gains Tax.

From the article above from UK authorities - seems to me like there is no liability to CGT for non-residents

 

[Marie]

I understand that to apply to UK citizens who move elsewhere retaining their PPR in the country. As far as I understand this doesn't apply to outside investors buying properties 'to let'. Check it out with the Inland Revenue. I think I'm right as otherwise the implications would be a steady buying-up of UK property by non-nationals and siphoning off revenue into other countries. Hardly likely? For instance I only became aware recently that non-EU workers in the UK cannot purchase a home (a home not an investment property!) until they have lived permanently and with fully-employed/taxed status for a minimum of 4 years. I'd be intereested in the outcome of your research.

 

[zoe]

I understand that to apply to UK citizens who move elsewhere retaining their PPR in the country.

By "in the country" do you mean UK citizens who move elsewhere and retain their PPR in another country other than the UK (or retain their PPR in the UK)?

 

[Glenbhoy]

I only became aware recently that non-EU workers in the UK cannot purchase a home (a home not an investment property!) until they have lived permanently and with fully-employed/taxed status for a minimum of 4 years

I think that's just a worldwide norm.
As for the CGT I think from the info posted here and from previous discussions on AAM that there is no CGT liability for non residents, it is up to the person making the capital gain to pay the tax according to their local cgt rules in their country of residence.

 

[Marie]

Well I'm doubting myself now and would be interested to learn more if someone checks with I.R. I think the crucial sentence is "If you left the UK before 17 March 1998 and the disposal is made during a year throughout which you are treated as not resident and not ordinarily resident, there will be no liability to UK Capital Gains Tax. It seems unequivocal to me that in order to 'leave' you must have 'been' (resident, that is!)