International Transfer fees huge discrepancy

A

Awesome Dodo

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HI there ,

Seeking your advice on who oversee bank transfer routes and which bank is responsible to clarify the charges: the sending bank or the receiving bank ?

I made 2 international bank transfers from an Irish Bank to a Bank out-of-EU , first transfer was in June and the second one was 2 days ago in July.
The 2 transfers were identical : with the same Euro amounts , from the same source bank to the same destination bank in a Euro account to the same person , the only difference is the transfer dates.

At the first transfer : transfer charges were 51c ( charge by the Irish bank) and 4$ (charged by the destination Bank)
At the second transfer 2 days ago : charges were 51c ( at the Irish bank) and 83.5 Euros (charged at the destination Bank)

When checking with the destination bank, I was told they only charged 4$/3.5 Euros and the source bank charged the difference. When I checked with the source bank in Ireland they confirmed the difference was charged by the receiving bank .

I am kind of lost here not sure who to believe , I need to know who charged the extra 80 euros , why I was charged 3.5 Euros at the first transfer and 83.5 Euros at the second transfer with an identical transaction .

I am planning to do monthly transfer for the coming number of years and I really need to understand who dictates the charges .

The sending back in Ireland asked me to file a complain with a charge of 50 Euros , if I am not happy with the bank decision which organisation controls this process ?

Thanks in advance
 
Just to clarify, the Irish bank told you that lodging a complaint would cost 50 Euro? That doesn't sound right.
 
They said they will file a Q&C (Queries and Complaint) on my behalf to the Bank's international transfer department to clarify the route of the payment, this will cost 50 Euros and will take at least 10 days. I told them I am not happy to pay the 50 Euro , and asked them to confirm the exact charge , they said they will come back to me on Monday

Who is regulating this type of international transfers ? Who I should address my complaint to ?
I am happy with this bank and will continue banking with them , but I don't feel I am getting the right answer here
 
Paying 50 Euro to (possibility) find out why you lost 80 Euro isn't a good deal. You should consider using different ways of making future transfers, e.g. using Revolut or Transferwise
 
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Were these in branch transfers (expensive) or online?
Also, were either of them "same day" transfers.

If doing regular transfers, use transfermate or transferwise - lower costs and better rates especially for personal customers.


When I make transfers, I always put the default "I pay my bank charges, payee pays their bank's charges" and always choose standard and not "urgent" or "same day"
 
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Awesome Dodo said:
HI there ,

Seeking your advice on who oversee bank transfer routes and which bank is responsible to clarify the charges: the sending bank or the receiving bank ?

I made 2 international bank transfers from an Irish Bank to a Bank out-of-EU , first transfer was in June and the second one was 2 days ago in July.
The 2 transfers were identical : with the same Euro amounts , from the same source bank to the same destination bank in a Euro account to the same person , the only difference is the transfer dates.

At the first transfer : transfer charges were 51c ( charge by the Irish bank) and 4$ (charged by the destination Bank)
At the second transfer 2 days ago : charges were 51c ( at the Irish bank) and 83.5 Euros (charged at the destination Bank)

When checking with the destination bank, I was told they only charged 4$/3.5 Euros and the source bank charged the difference. When I checked with the source bank in Ireland they confirmed the difference was charged by the receiving bank .

I am kind of lost here not sure who to believe , I need to know who charged the extra 80 euros , why I was charged 3.5 Euros at the first transfer and 83.5 Euros at the second transfer with an identical transaction .

I am planning to do monthly transfer for the coming number of years and I really need to understand who dictates the charges .

The sending back in Ireland asked me to file a complain with a charge of 50 Euros , if I am not happy with the bank decision which organisation controls this process ?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

If you are paying Euros to a non-euro bank, the receiving bank will have an agent bank in Eurozone. Most banks have multiple correspondents. It is possible that difference relates to which correspondent the payment went through. Judging by the amount and difference, I'm going to guess the second payment routed through a German bank (who often charge non-European clients a % of the payment).

I'm not sure what you can do to control it. Possibly ask Ulster Bank to make the payment with charges set at "Our" (meaning the sender pays). Possibly this way you would be capped at domestic Euro charge levels.

Out of interest - where is the receiving bank? Is there another option to transfer the cash (Paypal or similar)
 
peemac said:
Were these in branch transfers (expensive) or online?
Also, were either of them "same day" transfers.

If doing regular transfers, use transfermate or transferwise - lower costs and better rates especially for personal customers.

When I make transfers, I always put the default "I pay my bank charges, payee pays their bank's charges" and always choose standard and not "urgent" or "same day"
Click to expand...

It was online and it wasn't same day transfer , I chose the 2-4 working days option
I though nothing could be cheaper than 4.5 Euros transfer fees as previously did last month
Indeed , I used the "I pay my bank charges, payee pays their bank's charges" option
 
Awesome Dodo said:
Indeed , I used the "I pay my bank charges, payee pays their bank's charges" option
Click to expand...

Is there a "I pay all charges" option? Not sure if that would solve it - but it may limit the charges to the EU level. But it looks like the problem is with charging schedule of the receiving bank's agent. I suspect that's what Ulster Bank will tell you. If you have them investigate, there may not be a lot they can do.

Can the person you paid the money to raise it with their bank?
 
EmmDee said:
If you are paying Euros to a non-euro bank, the receiving bank will have an agent bank in Eurozone. Most banks have multiple correspondents. It is possible that difference relates to which correspondent the payment went through. Judging by the amount and difference, I'm going to guess the second payment routed through a German bank (who often charge non-European clients a % of the payment).

I'm not sure what you can do to control it. Possibly ask Ulster Bank to make the payment with charges set at "Our" (meaning the sender pays). Possibly this way you would be capped at domestic Euro charge levels.

Out of interest - where is the receiving bank? Is there another option to transfer the cash (Paypal or similar)
Click to expand...

Thanks EmmDee for the feedback , I never used any other option ( Paypal or transfer wise or revolut ) , I though the safest option is to use bank transfer . And the fund destination is a Euro account in an Egyptian bank

So do you think if I choose the option to pay all fees from the sender side i.e Ulster Bank will ensure no future transfer fees hikes ?
Why it is so difficult for the bank to share the transfer route and compare it with the previous transfer?
 
EmmDee said:
Is there a "I pay all charges" option? Not sure if that would solve it - but it may limit the charges to the EU level. But it looks like the problem is with charging schedule of the receiving bank's agent. I suspect that's what Ulster Bank will tell you. If you have them investigate, there may not be a lot they can do.

Can the person you paid the money to raise it with their bank?
Click to expand...

Yes there is such an option EmmDee , I can choose to pay all the charges at my side here
The account holder on the receiving end raised it with their bank and the bank said "we only receive the money and take 4$ fees and lodge it to your account "
I got a call from Ulster Bank this morning, they stated they are not charging fees for the complaint after consulting the international transfer department. They are kind of setting the expectation that they are going to ask the beneficiary bank and depend on what they are saying they are going to share it with me , so probably nothing they can do from their end here in Ireland .

Back to square one , who is regulating this transfer ? and who controls the route , is it the sending bank or the receiving Bank ?
 
Awesome Dodo said:
The account holder on the receiving end raised it with their bank and the bank said "we only receive the money and take 4$ fees and lodge it to your account "
....
Back to square one , who is regulating this transfer ? and who controls the route , is it the sending bank or the receiving Bank ?
Click to expand...

The question for the receiving bank is not what they charge ($4) but rather who their agent is and what their agent charge is. The selection of the agent and the fee schedule is with the receiving bank.

I'd be interested to hear what Ulster say - there is a possibility they are also using an agent but I'd be surprised - they must be a EUR clearing member. In terms of the routing, the receiving bank determines their EUR agent. So unless Ulster are using an agent (which I doubt), then it is covered by the receiving bank.

It's often underestimated how much the EU has simplified cross border payments and capped the cost of them
 
EmmDee said:
The question for the receiving bank is not what they charge ($4) but rather who their agent is and what their agent charge is. The selection of the agent and the fee schedule is with the receiving bank.

I'd be interested to hear what Ulster say - there is a possibility they are also using an agent but I'd be surprised - they must be a EUR clearing member. In terms of the routing, the receiving bank determines their EUR agent. So unless Ulster are using an agent (which I doubt), then it is covered by the receiving bank.

It's often underestimated how much the EU has simplified cross border payments and capped the cost of them
Click to expand...

Thanks EmmDee , do you reckon the receiving bank use different agent with every transfer or likely to be the same agent ? As stated earlier , I made the exact same transfer last month in June and there was minimal charge ( total 4.5 Euros compared to 84.5 this time)
 
Awesome Dodo said:
Thanks EmmDee , do you reckon the receiving bank use different agent with every transfer or likely to be the same agent ? As stated earlier , I made the exact same transfer last month in June and there was minimal charge ( total 4.5 Euros compared to 84.5 this time)
Click to expand...

Banks usually have multiple correspondents (agents) per currency unless they are very small. Allows them have a fallback / redundancy and to spread business around. So there can be variations.

Usually though, someone sending them funds would specify the route (based on information given to them from the receiving bank). So I'm scratching my head a little here - presumably UB would be using the same route as the initial payment. It's possible that UB don't specify and their payments infrastructure alternates between the options. Or that the receiving bank changed their agent (or default instructions) between the first and second payment. But it seems a bit funny. Can't rule out some screw-up either. That's why I'd be interested to see what UB say
 
EmmDee said:
Banks usually have multiple correspondents (agents) per currency unless they are very small. Allows them have a fallback / redundancy and to spread business around. So there can be variations.

Usually though, someone sending them funds would specify the route (based on information given to them from the receiving bank). So I'm scratching my head a little here - presumably UB would be using the same route as the initial payment. It's possible that UB don't specify and their payments infrastructure alternates between the options. Or that the receiving bank changed their agent (or default instructions) between the first and second payment. But it seems a bit funny. Can't rule out some screw-up either. That's why I'd be interested to see what UB say
Click to expand...

That's a good point EmmDee , thanks for clarifying it.
Hard to believe different route options increase the transfer cost from 50c to 80 Euros .
In the mean time my own speculation (not based on any solid investigation) the fact that the increase is a fixed 80 Euro (and not a fixed number in $) suggest it is set by the bank using the Euro as a currency , I might be completely wrong though
UB said they need at least 10 days before they come back to me , so let's wait and see
 
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