IMPACT balloting members

Jack O'Connor from Siptu was also on about his opposition to any public sector wage cuts - his answer to the problem was to introduce a 48% tax rate although it would be correct to say he was less than vague when it came to what wage it would apply from - about €100,000 - and yet he couldnt produce any figures on how much money this new tax rate would bring in or plug the gap in our deficit in current expenditure.
 

Jack O'Connor makes me cringe. He was trying to convince Matt Cooper that only 9% of private sector works have taken a pay cut. He is not living in the real world.

We are heading for civil war, the public sector v private sector with the government in the middle. I fear for this country now.
 

did Matt say anything to him about the thousands of redundancies as a retort. Id love to know how union members that have lost their jobs feel about jacks such strong stance against pay cuts in the public sector... its easy but tough against the govt, try save some jobs jack. Did he give his text book definition of deflation again.The union leaders are pitting public vs private they will f$cking ruin us, the final nail...sorry
 
Another issue is that some private sector workers whose salary is funded through public sector grants are linked to public sector salary scales - so I wonder where this all sits in terms of planned cuts in public sector wages - are these going to be part of it - and are these going to be balloted by IMPACT.

Another farce is this 24/7 public sector alliance....where was this collective opposition of an "alliance" to cutbacks in both services and pay when Govt was dishing out embargoes on public sector recruitment, there was cuts in health services, closure of wards and also garda stations.... this alliance only transpired when they all realised that cutbacks in their members pay and allowances was clearly on the Govt's radar? I heard the spokesperson for this group - Des Kavanagh who is head of the PNA spurning on about these groups losing their sunday and christmas day premiums - defending the indefensible like the fact that Gardai allowance includes one for rent and they might not even be renting - he pointed out that Gardai were working Sunday's and had to cover events like croke park (you think that public order and traffic management wasnt part of their actual job for a minute) and then he said that these allowances were secured through agreement from the 1970's or was it the 80's.

The only people I'd have SOME kind of sympathy for is fire and ambulance services....!
 
Teatime said:
... We are heading for civil war, the public sector v private sector with the government in the middle. I fear for this country now.
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Dude calm down, no need to be so alarmist!


I watched the debate on Pat Kenny's show last night. How come IBEC, ISME, SFA were not to be seen?

It seemed to me that by the end of the show, some of the private sector bods were siding with the public sector workers!
 

I think something like this could work.
Even say the government want to cut 5% of the wage bill every year for the next 3 years. It can be all in pay or all in actual numbers or a mixture of both. At least if gives an incentive to employees to do more with less.
 
Teatime said:
Jack O'Connor makes me cringe.
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+1

The guy is a complete fool IMO - he has nothing to say, zero debating skills and is not at all bright TBH. He was utterly pathetic on the show. I've no idea how he is in the postion he is.
 
The Government would seem to be in a cleft stick situation here.
If they reduce public sector pay across the board by 5% then I have no doubt we will see hugely damaging strikes and the Unions will refuse to negotiate on public sector reform.
Perhaps the Mandate suggestion of pay and pension protection in return for reform is a runner ?
 
bogle said:
It seemed to me that by the end of the show, some of the private sector bods were siding with the public sector workers!
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ICTU and IBEC are two sides of the same coin; the management and non-management side of the protected sector. I know the foreign multinationals have to join when they get their IDA hand-outs but they are not real members.

Deiseblue said:
Perhaps the Mandate suggestion of pay and pension protection in return for reform is a runner ?
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How will that reduce costs in the short term?
 
I take it that you agree that public sector reform could deliver more than a putative 5% pay cut ?
Possibly a two year time frame ?
 
Deiseblue said:
I take it that you agree that public sector reform could deliver more than a putative 5% pay cut ?
Possibly a two year time frame ?
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Ok, I'll take the point that it may be more beneficial, but we don't have 2 years. It really is that important.

Plus, the cynic in me thinks "oh now you want to talk about reform". You know what: it's a bit late for that. We both know that reform should have taken place a long time ago, however I'm sure if we're both honest, that there was no chance in hell that it could ever have been brought to the table, even with a crystal ball. Any hint of reform in the past has been met with resistence and threatened industrial action.

The opportunity for reform discussion has gone, that ship has sailed, maybe the PS Unions let it sail, maybe there wasn't the political will to enter into reform negotiations, it's not important any more.

This is with no offence, no disrespect and full sympathy to anyone in the PS or CS, but this country cannot afford you. If we do not do something immediately about public spending, we really are heading into dark times.

I'm sorry, I know that will be tough on a lot of employees and I hope all cuts are proportionate and rational (i.e. based upon where there is a need for cut and those roles are excessive rather than just easy targets). But for the 4 million people who live in this country and not just the proportion who work in the PS/CS we have to cut.

A more productive route would be to look to agree the untouchables and look at where it is more appropriate to make cuts. However, I understand that this is conceding some members will ose their jobs.
 

how bad can the strikes be? An awful lot of public sector employees must have mortgages, really large ones for younger workers. Whats the pay when you go on strike? a hundred a week from the union or something like that?

I cannot see how many workers, public or private, can go on strike for a prolonged basis given the debts we all have and the loans that have to be serviced. So let a strike happen...not 1 day events, but a prolonged strike and bring this to a head in a short space of time (if teachers etc attempt to go out for 1 day at a time, every few weeks or so, keep the buildings locked on their return and don't pay them until a resolution is agreed)
 
Deiseblue said:
I take it that you agree that public sector reform could deliver more than a putative 5% pay cut ?
Possibly a two year time frame ?
Click to expand...
Reform without a serious reduction in both pay and numbers is meaningless. Reform should mean a reduction in pay by 5-15% (5% at the top, 15% at the bottom) and a reduction in numbers of 20% (30% or more in the HSE). Unfortunately we don’t have the resources to effect any real reform now; slash and burn is the only option.
 
Purple said:
we don’t have the resources to effect any real reform now; slash and burn is the only option.
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Purple - You remind me of a senior manager I know in a large American multi. He has a saying when they are taking over a business. He looks for "a long straight wall" at the head office.

I asked him why and he said " so we can line up all management and shoot them in one go!!"
 
TarfHead said:
Does Maggie Thatcher still send you a card at Christmas ?
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you dont see the media in the Uk over-run with the beardies everytime the govt make a decision that affects the country. I watch ch4 news and newsnight,some of bbc news...question time etc...and I could count on 1 hand the amount of times I've seen or heard union officials being part of the debate.
And yet, the sky has'nt falling in on the average worker over there, public or private. They have as much protection as workers here through national and EU laws....but yet the unions in this country have to be sat down and talked with several tiems a year just so the country is'nt plunged into strikes etc
 
TarfHead said:
Does Maggie Thatcher still send you a card at Christmas ?
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Bet he has a big poster off her stuck up on his bedroom wall

Seriously though they definitely do have their problems over there...

National Mail Strike May Hit U.K.
[broken link removed]

Travel chaos for Tube passengers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8090608.stm?lsf

Brown says U.K. strikes are 'not defensible'
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/world/europe/01iht-brits.4.19847459.html

Also in my opinion UK (and continential) workers and their unions are much more militant than Irish ones.
 

I couldn't agree more.
Furthermore, the PS does not have the capacity to reform from within-management, employees and unons are all part of the problem, indeed, the vast majority of managers in the PS are union members. I have family and friends in PS - and the picture they paint of their workplace environments is mind-boggling - rampant ineffciency, incompetence at every level, an us versus them mentality, time served valued above competence. We need political action to radically reform, restructure and downsize the PS. The frst step is to boot the incompetent F.Failers and Vegtables out of office........
 
DonDub said:
We need political action to radically reform, restructure and downsize the PS. The frst step is to boot the incompetent F.Failers and Vegtables out of office........
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I couldn't agree more with you, but would a FG/Labour government be any different?

Sad to say, but Brian L is probably the best chance we have out of this mess.

The archaic working practices, pay increment scales, travel days, gold plated pensions etc, must all be cut with a minimum of 20% pay cuts across the board. The party is over boys - but my fear is that the Commies in SIPTU, IMPACT and all the rest will win the day and we (the private sector workers) will continue to feel the pan
 
BeanPole said:
... but my fear is that the Commies in SIPTU, IMPACT and all the rest will win the day and we (the private sector workers) will continue to feel the pan
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Impact have members who are engineers, pilots, air traffic controllers, software engineers, computer experts etc. etc. - infact just about every technical and professional job you can think of. Are you seriously suggesting these people are "Commies"!

Dude its very hard to take your posts seriously when you come out with this sort of silliness, which is frankly starting to verge on the hysterical
 
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