Ill Benefit Pension -DB. Request for a review.

D

DeclanDublin

Registered User
Messages
134
Hi all,
I did piggyback this query onto somebody else's post, but it probably needs a separate listing.

The basic position is, I took early retirement due to an ongoing, and at that point serious medical condition, a number of years ago. I had a fairly senior role in the organization, I submitted a medical report from my consultant and I was also seen by the company Dr. In a meeting with all the top brass, it was strongly encouraged that I accept the pension. To be frank, it suited the company and me. They didn't want an ill employee I imagine, and I was really too sick to want to work and particularly for the high-pressure job I had. I just rec.d a letter from the company pension scheme saying ' as you are aware the pension was granted on the basis of ill-health and subject to review, and we now want to review your entitlement...'

Whilst my condition is better managed, it is a LT illness, and I'm now in my mid-fifties and not in perfect health, and I'm concerned at this attempt to review a pension I thought would continue. Frankly, I expect they thought I might die before now. I really don't relish the thought of trying to secure a job at my age and with my health. I've checked the documents issued with the pension and can find no reference to a review or a requirement to have one. I'm really stumped by this request and looking for any advice from any AAM members who may understand the whole pension field, and may offer pointers. I have had some help, and it is much appreciated, but I want to get the widest range of views as to what I should do. TBH the whole thing has left me very shocked and anxious.
 
Last edited:
You probably have no option but have the review.
This could just be a paperwork exercise for the Insurance Company that they are catching up on.
Is it the Insurance company asking for the review, is the Insurance Company an "Ïrish" company?
You could ask for a copy of the scheme rules if you dont have them to read the small print. In particular the rules applying to the granting of your "Early retirement".
Re "as you are aware the pension was granted on the basis of ill-health and subject to review, and we now want to review your entitlement"
You could ask them for the part of the scheme rules where it states this.........if you cannot find it.
A bit confused here as if you were given "Early Retirement" dont know if they can inretire you if you're condition is still the same.
What documentation do you have from when the pension was granted. Was it Just "Early retirement". If you're condition has not changed, get a letter from your consultant etc. You cannot return to work unless you're doctor tells you, you can. A company cannot make you return to work unless you're doctor gives you permission. I think Early Retirment on Ill Health means you cannot do the job you are trained to do. So if your condition is still the same and you have tests/medical reports to prove this you should have no issues. They cannot make you get a job as a Plumber if you were an Electrician. You would also have to be returning to your old job.
You can also ask who is conducting the review. If it s a doctor with no experience in your condition then they cannot really contradict your Consultant. Of course if its an Insurance Company Doctor they get paid by only one person so slightly conflicted in in my opinion.
 
Did you actually get “early retirement “ from the Pension Scheme or did you claim under some form of Income Protection/ Permanent Health Insurance?
If “early retirement “ I would think it unusual that the Employer/ Pension Scheme would seek an update on your medical condition. Normally “retirement “ is final, whether “early” or normal retirement. And in this case you cease to be an employee of the Co.
IP/PHI however is simply an insurance paid out whilst someone is unable to work due to illness. Under this structure, if your condition improves they expect you to return to work (beacause you have not ceased to be an employee).

So can you clarify if you left service on early retirement or simply made a claim under IP/PHI?
 
Hi all and thanks for the replies. I was on a DB company pension, not a PHI scheme. I was given a full ill-health pension. The letter from the company lists two options, a partial ill health pension and the full one, I rec.d was the full one. I don't know why two options were listed, but the fact is they gave me the full one. There is no mention in this letter of a review. In the Pensions handbook I rec.d at the time, the text states ' if the employer agrees, you may be permitted to retire at any time on the grounds of serios ill -health or incapacity. In this case you will rec. an immediate pension of...." My point is that they seem to want to review something sixteen years later, this is literally the first time I've been asked for a review and they seem to be relying on a condition for which there is no paperwork. I find it very odd, and very worrying.
 
Last edited:
A pension, once in payment cannot be reduced except in certain circumstances such as a scheme re-arrangement. So if you have a pension ( but it is not totally clear if you do) then you are ok.
 
JoeRoberts said:
A pension, once in payment cannot be reduced except in certain circumstances such as a scheme re-arrangement. So if you have a pension ( but it is not totally clear if you do) then you are ok.
Click to expand...

Hi Joe, I definitely am on a DB pension. I rec.d ill-health retirement and have been paid on that since I retired. I rang the pensions board and they suggest that the T&C's ( I don't know these are referred to in the jargon) , can be amended. But that the request seems very unusual. Like others have said here, they wondered if it was a PHI scheme. But it is definitely a pension. The pensions board suggested writing to the Trustees and asking where the requirement for a periodic medical review appears in the Scheme rules. As this is such a complex field I'm tempted to seek professional legal advice before doing anything, but I would like feedback from anyone with expertise in the field of pensions. As a by the by, I wondered, if they somehow declare me fit to work, would they have to offer me my job back?
 
gimp said:
You probably have no option but have the review.
This could just be a paperwork exercise for the Insurance Company that they are catching up on.
Is it the Insurance company asking for the review, is the Insurance Company an "Ïrish" company?
You could ask for a copy of the scheme rules if you dont have them to read the small print. In particular the rules applying to the granting of your "Early retirement".
Re "as you are aware the pension was granted on the basis of ill-health and subject to review, and we now want to review your entitlement"
You could ask them for the part of the scheme rules where it states this.........if you cannot find it.
A bit confused here as if you were given "Early Retirement" dont know if they can inretire you if you're condition is still the same.
What documentation do you have from when the pension was granted. Was it Just "Early retirement". If you're condition has not changed, get a letter from your consultant etc. You cannot return to work unless you're doctor tells you, you can. A company cannot make you return to work unless you're doctor gives you permission. I think Early Retirment on Ill Health means you cannot do the job you are trained to do. So if your condition is still the same and you have tests/medical reports to prove this you should have no issues. They cannot make you get a job as a Plumber if you were an Electrician. You would also have to be returning to your old job.
You can also ask who is conducting the review. If it s a doctor with no experience in your condition then they cannot really contradict your Consultant. Of course if its an Insurance Company Doctor they get paid by only one person so slightly conflicted in in my opinion.
Click to expand...

This is a large UK company with a substantial Irish presence. It is the Trustees of the pension scheme that have written to me. I do intend writing to them asking where this review clause is mentioned. At the back of my mind is the fact that probably, due to great medical advances, this condition is now more manageable, and they may want to overturn the pension award, and if this happens what options do I have? The more I think about this, the more worrying it is.
 
This seems really odd, have never seen a review clause in a Trust deed and rules for a DB scheme. You are doing the right thing writing to Trustees looking for the detail of the rule
 
What’s the harm in asking them in writing to clarify, by referencing the scheme rules, the basis for this request? Add a line to say that you’d like to understand that before responding and that you reserve your position generally.
 
"if they somehow declare me fit to work, would they have to offer me my job back?"

...................only your doctor /consultant can declare you fit to work..............
 
gimp said:
"if they somehow declare me fit to work, would they have to offer me my job back?"

...................only your doctor /consultant can declare you fit to work..............
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that is not how it works with insurance policies that cover ill health schemes. They appoint an "independent" doctor who has final say subject to appeal. Whether the person actually goes back to work is a different mater the claim is decided on the independent opinion.
 
The OP has said that he is not claiming under an insurance policy (eg PHI). If he has accepted early retirement, then I cannot see how that can be reviewed based on any health improvement. He has “retired”. If in receipt of an Annuity, then the deal is done.
He should challenge the request to attend for ant medical which is seeking to review his early retirement. I very much doubt if the Scheme Rules has any such provision.
 
Thanks for all the great responses AAM. Much appreciated, and here's to them not being able to incude medical reviews in the scheme rules, and also I really hope the rule applies that there are no stupid questions. :) But I'm wondering, I don't recall signing anything when I got my pension. From recollection, it was just granted, (atho I suppose I applied for it) and that pretty much was that. From a legal perspective, wouldn't I have had to sign-off on an early retirement deal, and wouldn't the employer had had to ensure I received independent professional/legal advice, particularly whilst dealing with someone who is quite ill and therefore vulnerable? I know from my perspective, that I was very unwell at the time.
 
Last edited:
DeclanDublin said:
Thanks for all the great responses AAM. Much appreciated, and here's to them not being able to incude medical reviews in the scheme rules, and also I really hope the rule applies that there are no stupid questions. :) But I'm wondering, I don't recall signing anything when I got my pension. From recollection, it was just granted, (atho I suppose I applied for it) and that pretty much was that. From a legal perspective, wouldn't I have had to sign-off on an early retirement deal, and wouldn't the employer had had to ensure I received independent professional/legal advice, particularly whilst dealing with someone who is quite ill and therefore vulnerable? I know from my perspective, that I was very unwell at the time.
Click to expand...
Not independent advice but there would have been documents to sign including options regarding a tax free lump sum. Also would have received a P45. The more I read this the more I believe you are on some sort of illness scheme possibly paid from within the scheme rather than through an insurance policy. Do you get a P60 every year?
 
JoeRoberts said:
Not independent advice but there would have been documents to sign including options regarding a tax free lump sum. Also would have received a P45. The more I read this the more I believe you are on some sort of illness scheme possibly paid from within the scheme rather than through an insurance policy. Do you get a P60 every year?
Click to expand...
I seem to have rec.d P60's noting the employers as the company name followed by the word 'pensioners.' I don't recall receiving a p45. I see, to my great surprise, that they refer to the company as the employer, so perhaps you are right that this was envisaged as some sort of illness scheme. However, in documents I rec.d from the company granting the pension, they specifically refer to the pension granted 'on your retirement' as of 31/7/02.' further into the letter from the Pension Administration, they refer to death benefits payable within 5 years of the 'pension commencing'. They further refer to the date of retirement. There is NO reference to any illness scheme in the letter. This has me completely stumped. Surely 'retirement' has a very specific meaning in this context?If they meant ill-health scheme that's what they should have said, and furthermore to come back sixteen years later seems utterly arbitrary.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top