Idea ? would/could this work?

[thedaras]

This is not about student nurses being paid or not,but an idea of how it could be sorted.

So my idea would be the following;
The nursing degree is a four year one and as I understand it,during the fourth year the students work in the hospitals for training.

So what about changing it to a three year degree?

Or leaving it at four years,but they dont do on site training..like most other people in four year degrees?

That way they obviously dont do the work so they dont get paid.

If they need on site training they would have to apply for a place?
Wonder if AAm would consider having an Ideas thread?

 

[Chris]

I think your idea is exactly what was in place before the 4 year degree. My wife did a 3 year diploma and then went into the work force. She later did her degree part time.
In her recent experience she has found 4th year student nurses less able for the job, as they do not have the same level of hands on training as she did during her 3 year diploma. Most of the practical work is done in year 4 rather than spread out over 3 years.

 

[Leper]

This suggestion will work, but it will cost the Health Service more. Let me explain:-

1. HIQA (the overseeing hospital authority) demands a certain level of nursing staff at all times. This amount of time must never be less than the HIQA level.

2. Student Nurses supply relief for fulltime nursing staff who are on holidays, sick-leave, maternity leave, career breaks etc The student nurses work at 80% of the base staff nurse pay rate.

3. If a student nurse qualifies after 3 years, he/she then becomes an Agency Nurse (if a job as staff nurse cannot be got) and the Agency Nurses are used for holiday relief etc. But, at a much higher rate than the student nurse rate.

4. Something like 90% of student nurses emigrate on qualification thereby making the Agency Nurses more (let's say) important. Consequently, the now dear rates become dearer.

The simple and cost effective solution is to allow the Student Nurses work @ 80% of the minimum rate. And the stupid politicians cannot see this!

 

[Purple]

It is worth remembering that it was Nurses that demanded the change to a degree course as their professional qualification wasn't being valued or some such rubbish. Once they got their wishes they engaged in an aggressive campaign for pay increases, a campaign which was, from their perspective, a resounding success.

 

[Leper]

Purple, you are not being fair to the Nurses. They were treated pretty badly for years. Yes, they campaigned for theirs to be a Degree Course. The profession deserves a degree also.

They give good value for money and their income is easily known to the authorities and consequently they pay income tax, USC etc through the nose.

Remember, if the nurses were treated decently over the years there would have been no need for the Irish Nurses and Midwives Association.

 

[Purple]

Purple, you are not being fair to the Nurses. They were treated pretty badly for years. Yes, they campaigned for theirs to be a Degree Course. The profession deserves a degree also.

They give good value for money and their income is easily known to the authorities and consequently they pay income tax, USC etc through the nose.

Remember, if the nurses were treated decently over the years there would have been no need for the Irish Nurses and Midwives Association.

I'm not going to argue that nurses are overpaid as I don't know enough about what they do but I can say that they are paid more than most of their counterparts in the rest of the EU and that we can't afford the overall wage bill at the moment.

I also find the rhetoric from their union leadership deeply hypocritical, i.e. seeking and getting large pay increases, thus taking money from other areas of the health service, and then protesting about cuts in other parts of the health service. Their protests a few years back outside A&E departments just after getting a large pay increase springs to mind.

 

[lou2]

Purple you are not being entirely accurate to say that it was nurses themselves who 'demanded' that nurse education become a degree qualification. This was a recommendation of the Commission on Nursing chaired by the late Justice Mella Carroll published in 1998.

Chris...the practical work starts from first year in the degree programme and runs right through every year up to and including 4th year i.e. practice placements start in 1st year and continue throughout the programme. There is sometimes the misperception that student nurses don't meet a patient until their rostered year and this couldn't be further from the truth.

Thedaras...with regard to your suggestions...I don't think it would work to have nursing as a 4-year degree programme without the final practice year. Nursing is not like many other degree programmes in that the qualification is both a professional and an academic one. If it were to remain a 3-year degree this would be too short a time-frame to get the curriculum and the placements completed.

I don't mean to incite further ire but I honestly believe that if most of those who argue that nurses are overpaid or that student nurses shouldn't be paid for their practice year, actually shadowed a nurse in a practice setting for say two weeks they would change their mind. That's my honest belief.

 

[Leper]

Just on a point of clarification:- Student Nurses earn €12.36 an hour when they are on placement.

And for the record:- They save lives. I know it's their job, but they save lives. Accountants do the books but do not save lives. Student Nurses are far more important.

 

[Purple]

And for the record:- They save lives. I know it's their job, but they save lives. Accountants do the books but do not save lives. Student Nurses are far more important.

Rubbish. The health service is a massive organisation and doctors and nurses can't do their job unless everyone else does. In fact they can't do their job if their suppliers don't do theirs; the people who make the drugs, the dressings, the analytical equipment etc.
If having the biggest impact on public health was the main factor determining what people get paid then the guys that run the water service would come first, sewage workers would come second and the people who get rid of our domestic waste would come third. Top consultants who treat cancer etc would be at the bottom of the list.