Could such a prosecution be possible or succeed in this country?
Seanie is accused of providing false information to the auditors with regard to directors' loans which is an offence under the Company Acts.
On the face of it, it would seem an open and shut case - it is hard to see what defence he could put up against the available evidence.
I often wonder when people cry out to have some bankers jailed what offence did they commit under our legislation. I have no love for such people as my nest egg of bank shares are now worthless due to crazy lending which i think is not an offence?
Are you suggesting that his loans were moved from Anglo to PTSB prior to the year end without his knowledge?
I am not a lawyer, but I am not a fool either. I do not believe that the vast amounts of money "loaned" to people who could barely handle their telephone bills were done so in a bona fide sense. There was reckless borrowing allowed by the banks. They must have known that the bubble was about to bust as they are not fools either. I am not convinced that everything they did was legal and I believe with a little scratching at the surface at what they did will expose the real truth of what went on.
Let's face it, if somebody is caught shoplifting to feed a child the person faces a jail sentence. The banks because of their unrelenting greed loaned money like it was confetti. You dont have to be a trained lawer in any country to know that what was done was reckless and illegal. When I see bankers jailed (managers, assistant managers, the lot of those who participated in what can be called a contrived greedy scam I will once again believe in Ireland). People were diddled out of their money. How many of us have homes that are now worth less than half the value paid? You dont have to be an artist to draw conclusions here.
Lets follow Leper's logic:
- in 2007 I see a house I like advertised by an estate agent
- Based on my then income I get Bank approval for a mortgage
- The Bank get an independent valuation
- I get a surveyors report
- I employ a Solicitor
- The house is now valued at 60% of the 2007 value
So based on Leper's logic the following should be jailed:
- the estate agent should have known that the market was a bubble
- the Bank Manager, the Bank lending committee etc must have known
- the independent valuer must surely have known
- my surveyor must have known
- my Solicitor must have known
- and whilst I am in a jailing mind, what about the original owner of the house ( an Economist) he surely must have known
As Bertie said, no one told me it was a bubble. So based on my one house I think I can justify jailing some 10 individuals. After all how was I supposed to know. I won't be unreasonable by suggesting that the Bank clerks or the legal assistants I dealt with should also face jail.
On the basis of my one house I think that we can easily come to jailing some 7,500 people (allowing for many individuals being involved in multiple sales). At least the legal profession and the Prison Officers Assoc will be delighted.
Thank you Conan. I am not a lawyer as I pointed out earlier. So let's say the Bankers did not behave in any way underhand and let's not prosecute them. Then you must say they acted responsibly and should bear no responsibility at all. So, I am wrong. Thanks to all the Bankers and I am sorry if I offended any of them.Leper,
So sticking only with Bankers ( though that seems very selective) in the case of lending arrangements (whether commercial or residential) what laws were broken? What illegality happened?
Fortunately or unfortunately, being greedy is not illegal. Neither is an inability to predict the future. In fact, incompetence is not illegal.
One does not have to go back to long to when Banks (or Bankers) were vilified for their "conservative" lending practices. Now some want the same Bankers jailed for not being conservative enough.
If bankers were to be villified (or even jailed) for excessive lending, what responsibility does the borrower have. In my example above (I have seen a house I like, suitable for my growing family) should the Bank Manager have refused my loan application? At the time what would my reaction have been? Would I have been happy with such a decision? Would I have gone to another Bank that might have said "Yes"?
20/20 hindsight is far more prevalent now than it was in the early naughtiest.
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