I was mugged by a solicitor today......

.... and he got lots of Euros out of me for 23 years arrears of ground rent.

The purchaser of my house HAD to have a letter from the ground rent landlord (GRL) stating that he had no lean/claim to my property because I built an extension 23 years ago without informing them.

It was explained to my purchaser that the GRL's permission was not needed for an extension (as opposed to the erection of a separate building) but he would not relent.

I approached the solicitor for the GRL (I suspect one in the same) and explained by letter. He strung me along for two weeks. He wouldn't speak to me, wouldn't return phone calls. Promised (through his secretary) the letter tomorrow, then Friday, then Monday and so on. Time was critical and it was running out fast.

Eventually the solicitor rang me yesterday evening and said that he would release the letter as soon as I paid ALL the arrears. I mentioned the statute of limitations (I thought I only had to pay 6 years) and he told me it didn't apply in this case and if I wanted the letter I had to pay. I had no choice, I HAD to have that letter today (and he &^%$£ knew it) so I paid up and got the letter.

Now after all that, a question or three - was I mugged? Why did the statute of limitations not apply? Can anyone guess who the solicitor is?

Hi Garfield,

Your post is a little confusing. I added a few paragraphs to make it easier to read (I hope).

A few questions:

What did YOUR own solicitor have to say about this?
When you say "(I suspect one in the same)" who is the GRL the same as?
When you say "lots" what do you mean tens, hundreds, thousands?


aj

I think it's OTT to describe the solicitor's collection of the outstanding debt as a mugging. Remember he's not collecting it for himself - it's for his client. If he was my solicitor, I'd be delighted that he did such a great job.

I'd guess that the 'statute of limitations' was simply a negotiating ploy. You could possibly have tried negotiating on this if you had more time, or involved your own solicitor - but if you were stuck for time, you can't really blame the other brief for maximising the return for their client.

ajapale said:

What did YOUR own solicitor have to say about this?

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He point blank refused to get the letter because according to him and section 29 of the LANDLORD AND TENANT (GROUND RENTS) ACT, 1967 the GRL's permission was not required for an extension.

ajapale said:

When you say "(I suspect one in the same)" who is the GRL the same as?

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The solicitor.

ajapale said:

When you say "lots" what do you mean tens, hundreds, thousands?

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Just over €700

RainyDay said:

I think it's OTT to describe the solicitor's collection of the outstanding debt as a mugging.

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Well maybe I should have said I was told by the solicitor's secretary that if an individual (layman) approaches them in an instance like this that he (the solicitor) insists on all arrears being paid. However if this comes through another solicitor he has to accept just six years.

OTT? No I don't think so. I was mugged. Are you a solicitor?

Im still confused!

Are you saying that your solicitor and the solictior acting on behalf of the GRL are the same person?

aj

No he's saying that the solicitor acting for the GRL and the GRL are the same person.

elcato said:

No he's saying that the solicitor acting for the GRL and the GRL are the same person.

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That's right. Sorry for the confusion. This whole process (going on since July) has me just a little stressed at the moment

Elcato, you might even be able to answer question 3

So the GRL happens to be a solicitor who is acting for himself in this instance?

aj

Was the €700 for the letter and the letter alone or was there an element of unpaid ground rent?

If it was just for the letter it would seem a little excessive. I dont know what recourse you might have in this case. Did you speak to your own solicitor about the demand for €700? Did he think it was excessive/

aj

I'm assuming the €700 is arrears of ground rent, not any fee for a letter - right?

Garfieldus said:

Well maybe I should have said I was told by the solicitor's secretary that if an individual (layman) approaches them in an instance like this that he (the solicitor) insists on all arrears being paid. However if this comes through another solicitor he has to accept just six years.

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This makes little sense. There is no law that says the landlord has to accept one think from an individual and something else from another solicitor. It is much more likely that the solicitor simply squeezed you to get the most he could out of you. He knew or guessed that you were under time pressures from the other party, and made the most of his leverage. Seems like a fairly sensible business practice to me.

The statute of limitations does not wipe out your debt. It may well apply if the landlord were to take legal action against you, but it doesn't wipe out your debt.

I thought anybody could buy out their ground rent for a very modest multiple of the annual payment? Even if the GRL was unwilling? Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely?

might be of interest in this context.

RainyDay said:

I think it's OTT to describe the solicitor's collection of the outstanding debt as a mugging. Remember he's not collecting it for himself - it's for his client.

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His client was someone like Lord Lucan whose GR tenants in Castlebar stopped paying him after he murdered everyone that time . Ground rent should have been abolished years ago. Its an execration.

Freehole or Leashold should be all there is .

Those fraudulent Apartment Complex Management Companies are a post modern form of ground rent so we should bring back the stock and pillory for these extortionists as well .

etel said:

Freehole or Leashold should be all there is .

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I think I'll skip on the first option as it sounds a bit painful.

Those fraudulent Apartment Complex Management Companies are a post modern form of ground rent so we should bring back the stock and pillory for these extortionists as well .

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How exactly are management companies fraudulent? Buyers of properties that are governed by management companies (including myself - house rather than apartment) are apprised of the details by their solicitors when buying and become members/owners of the companies with full control over how their developments are managed. What is wrong with that?

Hi Garfieldus,
Did he charge a fee for providing the letter or is the €700 his fee plus the outstanding ground rent?
Why would your solicitor not help? His interpretation of the legal situation not withstanding he should have helped you out in a difficult situation. It doesn't look like he gave you a very good service and he should have been in your camp! I would have expected better but maybe I just have a very good solicitor...

I don't believe this. A complimentary comment on this board about a solicitor. Is that a first?

Garfieldus feels aggrieved that €700 was squeezed out of him by a solcitior who we suspect knew he had him over a barrell. We also suspect that the solicitor actually IS the GroundRent Landlord.

It is still unclear whether the money was for unpaid ground rent, buying out ground rent or just for the letter stating the the GRL had no lein or claim on the property.

Suppose that it is the last case (just the letter), what recourse does Garfield have to complain? Or is it what rainyday says just a normal commercial transaction.

ajapale

Check this out, looks as if it's going to be something like the ratemyteachers site.