Hurray for accBank?

csirl said:
Who says the taxpayer has to stump up? How about letting these banks go bust? Plenty more banks in the world who'd be only too happy to take the customer base (the solvent part) off their hands.
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Do you think Ireland evern registers on most foreign banks radars? If it did, BOI and AIB would have been bought over years ago during the boom. Any foreign banks here are already looking for the exit as quickly as possible and do you really think a Country the size of Ireland should be dependent on foreign banks for their banking system?
 
What is there to stop NAMA chasing up developers to repay their loans?
Is it the case that NAMA is going to buy all the bad property debts off the banks and that it will then own it?
What are they going to do with all this over-priced proprty then - sit tight and hope that the market picks up and we might make a small profit?
 

Pretty much sums it up as far as I can tell
 
Shawady said:
What are they going to do with all this over-priced proprty then - sit tight and hope that the market picks up and we might make a small profit?
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As far as I understand, that is what they plan to do - perhaps someone can contradict me (I hope so!).

NAMA appears to be founded on the assumption that there was no property bubble; that, essentially, what we are seeing is an unforeseen unexpected blip in a linear increase in house prices, and that therefore, everything will be back to normal relatively quickly. This is a huge assumption on which to stake billions of taxpayer's money.
 
No, I dont think anyone has said prices will "get back to normal relatively quickly". Nama will be ongoing, they are looking 10-20 years into the future.
 

I think this is more down to the stranglehold that BOI and AIB have on the customer base - traditionally it has been very difficult for a new bank to build up sufficient customers and branches to compete with them.

You mention buy outs, and yes its true, as long as both are operating, the only way to compete in Ireland is to buy one of them. But, given their reliance on property investment, you could understand why foreign banks have been reluctant to buy them in recent years. If any had, they'd have been left with a load of liabilities.

Now, if one of them were to go bust, it opens the market up. Loads of unattached customers, bank premises for sale at cheap prices. A lot more attractive to any foreign bank wanting to move into Ireland.

There are banks in emerging economies around the world that would give their right hands to have a meaningful shot at setting up a large network in an EU country. We should be trying to attract them.
 
I see the line of foreign banks lining up to buy the failed Icelandic ones!
 
Sunny said:
I see the line of foreign banks lining up to buy the failed Icelandic ones!
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Maybe not, but look at the reconstituted banks! In addition, the forced/negotiated debt to equity swaps are effectively selling the banks to their debt holders for less than the face value of the debt. Will they be able to efficiently able to perform the utility banking functions (the lubrication of the economy with money)?
 
Sunny said:
I see the line of foreign banks lining up to buy the failed Icelandic ones!
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Nobody will buy an existing basket case bank.

But, in the long term, Iceland needs banking services and now that all the domestic competition is gone, someone will fill the void.
 
Eddie Hobbs on radio says Rabo's game is to force the government to buy back ACC in a sort of blackmail or else it will collapse the whole deck of cards.

The timing is interesting, getting their attack in before NAMA. I can't work out what their game is, they couldn't have possibly expected to get repaid in full whilst the other banks are forced into big write downs. But how can NAMA make ACC take the sort of writedowns that the other banks will have to take? It seems to me that ACC can insist on full repayment or else they can force LC into liquidation which would mean the balloon is up. I'm afraid it looks like Rabo is blackmailing the Irish financial system, and that means us.
 
What are the implications for the developers if ACC/Rabo get their way?

The property assets will be acquired and sold to then highest bidder and the loans will be written down.

What happens the developers then? Do they just walk away? Is there any claim on their personal assets?

If not, surely they'd be happy to just cut their ties with the banks and the property market and head off to the golf course.

I don't see why they'd be resisting this.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
I'm afraid it looks like Rabo is blackmailing the Irish financial system, and that means us.
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Yes, i agree. I didnt like the look of this the second the news broke.

If they are going to play dirty like this i shall not be doing business with them anymore.
 
smiley said:
Yes, i agree. I didnt like the look of this the second the news broke.

If they are going to play dirty like this i shall not be doing business with them anymore.
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Shame on those foreigners wanting their money back.

Really, what do you expect banks to do? Act like ours and have the taxpayer pick up the bill? And do you think there was any other option for ACC? Frozen out of NAMA, they were expected to take the full loss and walk away like good little minnows.
 
smiley said:
Yes, i agree. I didnt like the look of this the second the news broke.

If they are going to play dirty like this i shall not be doing business with them anymore.
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Oddly enough, I've heard two people say today that they're more willing to put their money in a bank that seems to be so concerned about its rating; given that both the government and developers are so unpopular, I think accBank's tactics may play well among Irish people.
 
mercman said:
canice , I don't suppose the thought ever occurred to you that the Banks set the rules at the beginning, shoved the money at developers and on realising their own mistake, have now chosen to make the customers, and developers suffer.
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Oh please! You don't have clue. Nobody put a gun to anyones head.
 
Lord Snooty said:
Oh please! You don't have clue. Nobody put a gun to anyones head.
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You are correct. But the banks set the rules and have changed them half way through the game. This worldwide recession is well voiced to being the caused by the creation of Bank's greed - nothing else.
 
mercman said:
But the banks set the rules and have changed them half way through the game.
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I dont believe this. A legal contract is a legal contract. I imagine the developers have broken their contractual obligations, therefore the banks are entitled to get their money back.

This is what happens to over-leveraged people & companies in recessions. They get wiped out.
 
smiley, I am not disputing this for a second. But the manner in which the Banks were lending money to all and sundry was criminal. Threw it out in bucket fulls. For what ?? The Bankers personal Greed. And once upon a time ACC Bank was for farmers -- very big ones at that. They were then taken over by a foreign Bank - not to service the farmers but on a cheap ticket into a maret what they thought as a Cash Rich Ireland. Now they have woken up and realised their bad dream and want to exit stage right.They offered the incentives to the ACC staff which lent the money and the rest will remain history.

Sure they are right in looking for their money. But let no one say that they had to; were forced to; or encouraged to do so. The Bankers made it look all so easy. They themselves forget or hoped that this doomsday would never come or if so they would be well out of here by then.

So in reality it is not Hurray for accbank - it maybe should read Shame on you accBank or The Bankers.
 
mercman said:
So in reality it is not Hurray for accbank - it maybe should read Shame on you accBank or The Bankers.
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NO! Shame on the people who took out money to buy over priced land and shame on the people who gave them the money. Both are equally culpable. Now there is clearly no "change the rules" half way through, as this was park of commercial contract, so the banks are well within their right to try and get their money back.

You are trying to paint Liam O'Caroll as some old vunerable pensioner who had €1bn loan thrown at him.
 
diarmuidc said:
You are trying to paint Liam O'Caroll as some old vunerable pensioner who had €1bn loan thrown at him.
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Nope I am not. But in the same manner as ACC are chasing him for a lessor amount of millions, the Banks have millions of Euro of Debt which they lent without guarantee or other security. It is fairly evident that in LCs case there was no personal gain whatsoever. If Customer A is trying to expand their business, they approach the Bank. What happened in Ireland was the Banks were chasing the customers, providing corporate entertainment, offering holidays etc etc to get a part of the action. This is pure fact cos I know, but luckily I personally steered away from it.
 
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