How would a novice investor educate themselves?

Setanta12

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For novice or future investors, how would one educate themselves on stocks/shares generally ... I do have a small bit of knowledge (postage stamp sized amount) about the major concepts but want to get into the ratios, p/e etc etc ... but I also want to learn about other asset classes too e.g. property generally ..
 
What is your goal? What type of investor do you want to become? A value investor, passive investor, do you want to try to beat the market, or do you just want to see your money grow? Do you want to learn before you invest or are you looking to invest as soon as possible?

My view is that every investor should start with learning about risk management and a bit of portfolio management. I prefer spending my spare time outside of work socialising, reading or just relaxing so I just invest in broad market indices rather than spending my spare time pouring over annual reports, PE ratios etc.

My suggestion would be

1. Learn about risk management for a personal portfolio - Google is your friend
2. Pick a sample stock and read a few investment analyst reports on them and then use investopedia to understand the metrics.
 
If you wanted medical advice, would you use Google to get up to speed with a view to diagnosing your issue and ultimately treating yourself?

Your time would be better spent researching advisors and charges, and seeking personal recommendations.

All with a view to getting good advice.
 
I'd argue that if you're going to take advice from any professional advisor you'd want to have a good bit of knowledge yourself first, at the end of the day they are salespeople, no matter how 'independent', and if you don't understand what they're selling you're too vulnerable to being taken advantage of.
 
If you wanted medical advice, would you use Google to get up to speed with a view to diagnosing your issue and ultimately treating yourself?

Your time would be better spent researching advisors and charges, and seeking personal recommendations.

All with a view to getting good advice.

Are you suggesting that people wanting to invest should only use professional advisors and pay for it?
 
I'd argue that if you're going to take advice from any professional advisor you'd want to have a good bit of knowledge yourself first, at the end of the day they are salespeople, no matter how 'independent', and if you don't understand what they're selling you're too vulnerable to being taken advantage of.

Some are salespeople. Some are advisors who get paid to give advice. Unfortunately, both can use the same titles so it is impossible for people to distinguish from the two.

And to answer the OP, read a few books and get a good understanding of the fundamentals of investing first. Smarter Investing by Tim Hale is a good start.



Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
Hello,

I found both of the following books quite good:

"Fundamentals of Investment - an Irish Perspective" - by Brian O'Loughlin and Frank O'Brien.

"Essentials of Investments" - Mcgraw-Hill Irwin.
 
"Fundamentals of Investment - an Irish Perspective" - by Brian O'Loughlin and Frank O'Brien.

"Essentials of Investments" - Mcgraw-Hill Irwin.

Exactly what I was looking for. I won't be investing for some time - years? - but want to be very clued-in when I do.

I will also look to buy "Smarter Investing by Tim Hale" I'd missed the recommendation earlier.
 
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I have seen the theory - which I well understand - that if you have the financial knowledge to be able to choose between a good and bad advisor then you almost don't need an advisor!
 
Some are salespeople. Some are advisors who get paid to give advice. Unfortunately, both can use the same titles so it is impossible for people to distinguish from the two.
But isn't there a fundamental conflict of interest between advisor and client, even with the advisors who are paid to give advice? I mean is an advisor ever really going to tell a prospective client that the best thing they can do is go away and manage their own money, by investing in an index fund for example? Surely if an advisor is trying to build up their client base they want to retain the client by selling them something, be it ongoing advice, a money-managment service or a product?
 
Exactly what I was looking for. I won't be investing for some time - years? - but want to be very clued-in when I do.

Glad to be of assistance.

I found both of the books informative and well worth the read, so hopefully you will too.
 
But isn't there a fundamental conflict of interest between advisor and client, even with the advisors who are paid to give advice? I mean is an advisor ever really going to tell a prospective client that the best thing they can do is go away and manage their own money, by investing in an index fund for example? Surely if an advisor is trying to build up their client base they want to retain the client by selling them something, be it ongoing advice, a money-managment service or a product?

Is that not the same of any service? It's cheaper to look up YouTube and figure out how to fix that leaky tap. But lots of people would prefer to pay someone to do it quicker and someone who knows what they are doing. Same with submitting your tax returns or probate. There will always be people who are happy to do it themselves. They aren't the people I work with and that's fine. I have lots of clients that I work with over years.

Then there are salesmen who put clients in products with the highest possible commissions (and therefore charges), unsuitable products that just happen to pay high commissions too and are constantly on the look out for more sales. You won't find many of them advising clients to keep €X in cash for a rainy day.

One of the first things that Broker Ireland dealt with in this crash was how to deal with commission clawback for advisors after so many people stopped their premiums!


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
But isn't there a fundamental conflict of interest between advisor and client, even with the advisors who are paid to give advice? I mean is an advisor ever really going to tell a prospective client that the best thing they can do is go away and manage their own money, by investing in an index fund for example? Surely if an advisor is trying to build up their client base they want to retain the client by selling them something, be it ongoing advice, a money-managment service or a product?

There’s a fundamental conflict of interest between a surgeon and a potential private patient; the surgeon will make a lot of money if an operation goes ahead. Yet they frequently recommend doing nothing. Why? Because they’re professionals.

There’s a a fundamental difference between a spoofer in a Merc flogging product to make commission and a high-end professional advisor.
 
If I call out the plumber to fix the leaky tap I wouldn't expect the plumber to try to tie me into a contract whereby he comes out to fix the tap every year whether it's leaking or not. If I decide to pay the surgeon for the operation I'd hope it's a one-off...I wouldn't expect the surgeon to line me up as a future patient for my annual operation. The comparisons are absurd I know, because the business models are completely different. Steven I've just seen that you're a financial planner and don't mean any offence to you, but surely one-off independent advice isn't the average financial advisor's business model? I find it hard to believe that if the OP went to a financial advisor he wouldn't be advised to enter into some kind of ongoing contract whether he objectively needs that or not, either for ongoing advice, managment services or sale of a product that will provide commission to the advisor. Too cynical? Maybe...
 
By the way I'm not saying don't do it - maybe financial advice will help you, maybe that product or service is appropriate for you, just ... caveat emptor.
 
Too cynical? Maybe...

Not at all. There's a certain cohort that needs or wants on-going financial advice and there is another cohort that needs once off, point in time, advice. Typically, the financial adviser business model caters very well for the former and very poorly for the latter. It's not a one size fits all - the same water that hardens the egg softens the spud.
 
If I call out the plumber to fix the leaky tap I wouldn't expect the plumber to try to tie me into a contract whereby he comes out to fix the tap every year whether it's leaking or not. If I decide to pay the surgeon for the operation I'd hope it's a one-off...I wouldn't expect the surgeon to line me up as a future patient for my annual operation. The comparisons are absurd I know, because the business models are completely different. Steven I've just seen that you're a financial planner and don't mean any offence to you, but surely one-off independent advice isn't the average financial advisor's business model? I find it hard to believe that if the OP went to a financial advisor he wouldn't be advised to enter into some kind of ongoing contract whether he objectively needs that or not, either for ongoing advice, managment services or sale of a product that will provide commission to the advisor. Too cynical? Maybe...

Can you confirm what you mean by that?

I get contacted by people who just want an hour of my time so they can "pick my brain" and then go off and do it themselves. Knowledge that has grown over decades and cost of time and money through the qualifications that I have. I very much doubt someone would phone and accountant and ask them for an hour just to ask them a few questions about where to fill in a few items on a tax return. Or a solicitor to ask them a few questions about probate.



Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
I don't mean just one hour necessarily, but a once-off need for advice on a particular issue. I wouldn't see any issue with engaging a tax consultant or a solicitor for advice on on a problem, in fact that's really my point - if I need a solicitor to buy a house, execute a probate, deal with my divorce, it's a once-off issue.
 
It’s a major problem in a lot of industries...wire pullers who claim to be able to do things themselves but actually do so by wasting the time of experts.

Hopefully you can spot them a mile off, Steven, and deflect them away.
 
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