How to categorise expense in form 11

My friend is a sole trader as a basketball coach

He supplies his services to school

On the odd occasion he brings a part time paye worker to support him (she is paye in a normal day to day role but has experience in basketball coaching)

He invoices the school for the coaching services and gets paid to his business account

She invoiced him separately and he pays her via his business bank

He is confused as to how to record the deduction, does it go under 'professional fees, consultant fees' or salaries wages or other sub contractor


But she isnt an employee of his.

There is no payroll operated or employer prsi

She is going to declare the income she gets in a form 12 as its under 5k for non paye income

I think it's other sub contractor

My logic is

She isn't an employee so it's not wages or salaries
She is not a one off consultant or professional body so that rules out professional fees

He is sub contracting work to her technically at the same time (both of them are coaching together) so that makes most sense to me

"But she isnt an employee of his.*
She probably is.

I'm surprised the school is continuing to pay your friend as a sole trader. The latest advice schools are getting from the Dept of Education is that all payments to coaches should be operated under PAYE.

How? :/

She can decline the option of doing it, which she has done and he had to rearrange classes over it

She can also offer to him another coach in her place when she can't attend (which has been done in the past)

He doesn't control how the work is performed either

she hosts her own 1-1 and group sessions when needed

He doesn't direct her or arrange exactly how it done, he has his own group

He only brings her in on an ad hoc basis when the groups are too large

I'm not going to argue this with you. Your friend should seek his own advice.

I'm surprised the school is continuing to pay your friend as a sole trader. The latest advice schools are getting from the Dept of Education is that all payments to coaches should be operated under PAYE

Click to expand...

I agree

He was actually paye with them up until September and was for years but they literally sent an email on a Thursday ahead of the monthly wages on Tuesday following the domino's case /self employment that they want him as a sole trader going forward and he is to invoice them

I told him that's ridiculous because they set the timetable and provide the expense cover for clothing, balls etc, not to mind his employee rights but basically he didn't fight him ( accrued annual leave, potential redundancy etc, no legal notice period met) but the accounts department said the decision came from the board

He didn't want to lose the income but it's ridiculous, they broke alot of laws in my opinion, plus they avoid employer prsi, sick leave, annual leave etc

Its actually crazy but it is what it is and he didn't want to fight it, it's basketball coaching in the evenings with this secondary school and he was an employee on the books for years

Due to the situation, no other teacher can help out, I don't know why and on the ad hoc occasion he has to source assistance hence the above situation

This was the email

I've removed names etc

"

Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 10:39 AM wrote:

Good morning

Thank you for forwarding your timesheets for yourself . Apologies for the delay in replying but I needed to clarify the position. We received notification from Revenue regarding the employment status of sport coaches.

Basically, when we look at the Revenue guidelines determining the employment status of an individual, coaches would be recognised as self-employed,. Below link gives more detailed explanation. The 2nd link gives details regarding registration for self assessment via My Account on ROS. You previously indicated that you are self-employed, so we now need to request a Tax Clearance Certificate. I have limited expertise/experience in self-employment but there are a number of guidelines available through Revenue, or perhaps through a basketball/sport organisation?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing...g-the-employment-status-of-an-individual.aspx

https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-asse...f-assessment/register-it-self-assessment.aspx

Therefore, we must request that you forward an Invoice together with your registered number and Tax Clearance Certificate, in order to make payment keeping in line with current legislation.

Kind regards,

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I don't believe personally they got anything from revenue, revenue aren't going to clarify that for people, I thinks it's a way to save income and used the domino's case as an excuse

He was an employee for years

@callybags you should amend that post to delete the email address you have inadvertently copied.

They also said he indicated he was self employed

He said to me he has no idea what they are on about

He was never self employed before and thinks they confused him with someone else with that comment

He had to register as a sole trader since and open a business account with ptsb

you should amend that post to delete the email address you have inadvertently copied.

Click to expand...

Done, my bad

T McGibney said:

@callybags you should amend that post to delete the email address you have inadvertently copied.

Click to expand...

Just to note I am not the OP.

Sorry about that, sorted in the meantime.