How not to rent a property

I

I love hurling

New Member
Messages
5
Long time lurker here.

I'm very appreciative of the contribution from Brendan and everyone on AAM. With that in mind here's a cautionary tale, which I hope might save a reader or two here from making some of the same mistakes I made:

I work in a business where I meet lots of clients every day. Roughly two years ago a client sold a sobbing, tearful story to me that they were down in their luck with health problems and were going to be homeless the following Sunday.

I'm an accidental landlord from back in the celtic tiger days. A family member of mine was living in my property but had just left. I thought about this person's tale of woe and decided I couldn't see them go homeless.

Stupid mistake number 1: I then told them they could stay in the property for a month or two and I'd give them half the market value rent to help them get back on their feet.

You can probably see where this is going ...

Stupid mistake number 2 : I didn't register with the RTB because I thought 'ah, its just for a month or two'.

Stupid mistake number 3: I didn't realise that after 6 months this person would have tenancy rights and basically become close to impossible to remove from my property.

I started to fall on hard times financially myself and couldn't afford to service the mortgage on my own family home where I live with my kids, and on the property this person was in. Despite many attempts (verbally and in writing) the person refused to leave.

Long story short, the person threatened me with a human rights lawyer (I kid u not), got Threshold on my back (who used every possible technicality in the law to stop me getting my property back and instructed her to sue me for damages for various spurious reasons) and called the Gardai on me accusing me of harassment more than once.

Finally, two years later an RTB tribunal found in my favour.

As you can imagine this was massively stressful. Saving a person from homelessness, giving them half price rent and falling into arrears on my home mortgage as a result , while fighting the RTB/Threshold anti landlord machine, isn't a recipe for a good time.

Sorry for this long winded tale. I've left out a lot of detail for brevity: if u have any questions ill try to answer them. The reason I post this is to hopefully save one of the fine members of AAM from having something similar happen to them.

Thanks for the read.
 
I've seen it before. Decent kind natured people like yourself think everyone is more or less like them.

People like that article you were kind to ruin it for everyone else.

I'm a firm believer in karmic retribution and take comfort that somewhere down the road they will get hockied out if it.

If its any use, most of us run afoul of these types at some point. The lesson learnt is usually a hard one and won't be repeated.
 
Hi @I love hurling, I think you are one of the few nice people who rent out property. Believe me, I hear what you’re saying. My postman has a saying “If you’re too good, you’re no good” and not only are you a victim of an untrustworthy callous creep but also you’re a victim of your own kindness.

You got away at a cost financially and mentally, perhaps physically too, but at least you got through the situation. I’m not suggesting you become a tyrant landlord, but there has got to be a happy medium. Best of Luck.
 
T McGibney said:
What a disgusting - and revealing - thing for anyone to say.
Click to expand...

The author of that ill-informed comment is merely proving that the combined forces of a handful of publicity loving, populist politicians (we all know who they are) and the homelessness industry, backed by the uncritical support of far too many members of the media have achieved their objective (of denigrating decent landlords). They should be ashamed of themselves but appear incapable of feeling shame.
 
Last edited:
Can I say I fully understand your predicament. I was a volunteer helping Ukrainians who arrived here when the war broke out. My mothers house was empty and in the fair deal scheme and I offered one family a home. We get 800 euro pm and I will say they have not caused any problems in the house. However I am very much an accidental landlord and didn’t foresee what could happen. There are more people living there than I’d intended as they have gradually brought family over which is causing more wear and tear though they do their best. I’ve been clear that when the payment ceases (currently March 2025) I will need to register with the ARB and will have to charge proper rates as we are in an RPZ. I worry about their ability to pay full rent and that I’ll end up having to be the baddie eventually. If I give a significant rent reduction I will be left behind from a rental rates perspective and they may then move on quickly. Today I was renewing house insurance and have realised this is going to be more expensive too as it’s not owner occupied. No idea how much but this is what happens when you don’t think all of this through because you were motivated by empathy not finances.
Having said that I’d agree with another poster - people having to give sob stories and behave badly live chaotic lives that will continue that way for them. Better to be you than them with a clear conscience and a good heart.
 
You need Landlord insurance. Allianz have very good rates for apts 86.10 eur a year, start with them....ensure you also have liability insurance, currently you don't.

Why is the payment finishing on Mar 2025?

Do not under any circumstances rent for less than the going local rate.
 
Ballymag said:
Can I say I fully understand your predicament. I was a volunteer helping Ukrainians who arrived here when the war broke out. My mothers house was empty and in the fair deal scheme and I offered one family a home. We get 800 euro pm and I will say they have not caused any problems in the house. However I am very much an accidental landlord and didn’t foresee what could happen. There are more people living there than I’d intended as they have gradually brought family over which is causing more wear and tear though they do their best. I’ve been clear that when the payment ceases (currently March 2025) I will need to register with the ARB and will have to charge proper rates as we are in an RPZ. I worry about their ability to pay full rent and that I’ll end up having to be the baddie eventually. If I give a significant rent reduction I will be left behind from a rental rates perspective and they may then move on quickly. Today I was renewing house insurance and have realised this is going to be more expensive too as it’s not owner occupied. No idea how much but this is what happens when you don’t think all of this through because you were motivated by empathy not finances.
Having said that I’d agree with another poster - people having to give sob stories and behave badly live chaotic lives that will continue that way for them. Better to be you than them with a clear conscience and a good heart.
Click to expand...
Once the scheme ends in March 2025, do the Ukrainians become tenants? If so, will they be entitled to an indefinite tenancy after 6 months?
 
Knuttell said:
You need Landlord insurance. Allianz have very good rates for apts 86.10 eur a year, start with them....ensure you also have liability insurance, currently you don't.

Why is the payment finishing on Mar 2025?

Do not under any circumstances rent for less than the going local rate.
Click to expand...
The government have committed to continuing to pay 800pm under this scheme until March 2025. It may or may not be extended.
 
Knuttell said:
You need Landlord insurance. Allianz have very good rates for apts 86.10 eur a year, start with them....ensure you also have liability insurance, currently you don't.

Why is the payment finishing on Mar 2025?

Do not under any circumstances rent for less than the going local rate.
Click to expand...
House insurance for €86 annually? You mean monthly?
 
I love hurling said:
: if u have any questions ill try to answer them. The reason I post this is to hopefully save one of the fine members of AAM from having something similar happen to them.
Click to expand...
Appreciate learning from your tale of woe. You said any questions so here goes:

- Why didn't they leave after the second month?
- I assume you didn't register the family member with the RTB either.
- What arrangement did you make with the hard case?
- What actual win did you have with the RTB?

Stories like yours only make me more determined on being very careful who I rent to.
 
Bronte said:
House insurance for €86 annually? You mean monthly?
Click to expand...
For apartments it's €86.10 annually. Covers circa 20k contents and critically liability insurance at €3.1million if I recollect correct.
Obviously doesn't cover buildings as that's building cover and us managed by Management Co & and members Directors.
 
I love hurling said:
Long time lurker here.

I'm very appreciative of the contribution from Brendan and everyone on AAM. With that in mind here's a cautionary tale, which I hope might save a reader or two here from making some of the same mistakes I made:

I work in a business where I meet lots of clients every day. Roughly two years ago a client sold a sobbing, tearful story to me that they were down in their luck with health problems and were going to be homeless the following Sunday.

I'm an accidental landlord from back in the celtic tiger days. A family member of mine was living in my property but had just left. I thought about this person's tale of woe and decided I couldn't see them go homeless.

Stupid mistake number 1: I then told them they could stay in the property for a month or two and I'd give them half the market value rent to help them get back on their feet.

You can probably see where this is going ...

Stupid mistake number 2 : I didn't register with the RTB because I thought 'ah, its just for a month or two'.

Stupid mistake number 3: I didn't realise that after 6 months this person would have tenancy rights and basically become close to impossible to remove from my property.

I started to fall on hard times financially myself and couldn't afford to service the mortgage on my own family home where I live with my kids, and on the property this person was in. Despite many attempts (verbally and in writing) the person refused to leave.

Long story short, the person threatened me with a human rights lawyer (I kid u not), got Threshold on my back (who used every possible technicality in the law to stop me getting my property back and instructed her to sue me for damages for various spurious reasons) and called the Gardai on me accusing me of harassment more than once.

Finally, two years later an RTB tribunal found in my favour.

As you can imagine this was massively stressful. Saving a person from homelessness, giving them half price rent and falling into arrears on my home mortgage as a result , while fighting the RTB/Threshold anti landlord machine, isn't a recipe for a good time.

Sorry for this long winded tale. I've left out a lot of detail for brevity: if u have any questions ill try to answer them. The reason I post this is to hopefully save one of the fine members of AAM from having something similar happen to them.

Thanks for the read.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for sharing. I foresee this in my future. My HAP tenant is due to vacate Oct this year a failed attempt for the Local Authority to by the property for them. One question I haven't investigated yet I am allowed to accept rent from HAP while the tenant over holds? They are currently going through all avenues of legal options and charity assistance to stay.
 
Bronte said:
Appreciate learning from your tale of woe. You said any questions so here goes:

- Why didn't they leave after the second month?
- I assume you didn't register the family member with the RTB either.
- What arrangement did you make with the hard case?
- What actual win did you have with the RTB?

Stories like yours only make me more determined on being very careful who I rent to.
Click to expand...
Hi Bronte,

I'll answer ur questions in order as best I can. Here goes:
-They didn't leave after the second month because a combination of tall tales that I fell for and me being too generous/naive
-Correct
-Not quiet sure what ur question is here. Happy to answer though if u can elaborate
-I got repossession based on needing the property for a family member. Part of what dragged the whole affair out was that the rtb adjudicator who I had the misfortune of dealing with decided she didn't "believe" that I needed the apartment for a family member. A few months later a tribunal appeal over ruled her. The family member is living there now.

Hope this helps. Any questions let me know.
 
I love hurling said:
Hi Bronte,

I'll answer ur questions in order as best I can. Here goes:
-They didn't leave after the second month because a combination of tall tales that I fell for and me being too generous/naive
-Correct
-Not quiet sure what ur question is here. Happy to answer though if u can elaborate
-I got repossession based on needing the property for a family member. Part of what dragged the whole affair out was that the rtb adjudicator who I had the misfortune of dealing with decided she didn't "believe" that I needed the apartment for a family member. A few months later a tribunal appeal over ruled her. The family member is living there now.

Hope this helps. Any questions let me know.
Click to expand...
Your experience is a warning to existing and potential landlords. You tried to do the decent thing and you were taken advantage of.

Being a landlord is not easy and is getting harder. There is an element of luck and no amount of experience will stop any of us getting caught at some point. It can happen to any one of us.All we can do is act swiftly if we see something is going astray and at least minimise its impact.
 
I think what Bronte's third question was (and I'd love the answer as well), what was the final outcome when they finally realised the game was up. Did they leave quietly ? Was the place a mess ?
Also, did you get even partial rent during the time it took to finally gain possession again ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top