How not to Overpay for Your Dream Spanish Property

D

Drapier

Guest
I think it is a truism to say that although a lot of property in Spain, in general, and The Costas In particular is over priced. This doesn't mean to say that it doesn't sell at the inflated price.Why? Simple Answer. Homework? Buyers don't do enough homework.

There are a projected 800,000 new build starts (not necessarily finishes Mind You)in Spain for 2006. I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere here before that this is Equal to Germany, France and The UK combined. This tells me that there is no shortage of housing and probablyA LOT of Empty units. What's Driving this. Well Believe it or not it's not all about Foriegn Investment. The spanish like ourselves are all guns's blazing investing in property. Over Investing methinks. So this equates to impending Property crash right?. Wrong , I think. But thats another day's work

If you do your homework, Spain is a great place to buy. remember though the average re- sell apartment takes 30 months to sell. Don't believe me,check any web material on The Spanish economy. The seller will be a damn site more keen to sell than you are to buy. Remember this. Bargain Hard.

The other thing I can't stress enough is compartative analysis. Check out property selling for the same price in the area and neighbouring area's. Check out whats selling for 25-50 grand more. Compare. Contrast. Decide

Follow the locals. Buy in an area where your not limited to a foriegn market, if and when you decide to re-sell. This doesn't have to be the drag that it sounds. The spanish enjoy their beaches as much as we do, find out where they're going what their doing, it really isn't that difficult to find out once you establish a rapport with local agents etc. In a country with so many new builds a year you really, really really don't want to be cutting yourself off from potential future spanish Buyers.
This brings me to my final point. As a small investor you really need to be prepared to be in it for the medium to long Haul. You might hit the Jackpot of course, But chances are what ever you buy in spain it isn't going to return 100% capital Appreciation inside of three years.
However I believe If you stay the distance, YOU will CERTAINLY make money and more importantly enjoy your Investment.
 
Very good advise.

But please, don't turn lovely beaches and villages into another "Benalmadena", Marbella or "Puerto Banus"...It is not only about making money.

I really hope this tourism won't get into the "real Spain". It is getting destroyed.
 
Agree with a lot of above, including the heartfelt plea by Adorado!

The Spanish have been buying very strongly for the last couple of years in their own market, even in areas that were traditionally the preserve of the Germans/English/Irish/Swedes etc (somebody mentioned Puerto Banus, now being hoovered up by Spanish buyers). A lot of this is on the back of their own very strong economy and the equity release syndrome.

The real Spain in my view is a little inland, away from the Costas and all that goes with same. Nice villages in the mountains in areas with a good quality of life are a very attractive option for anyone who likes to spend extended periods in Spain. I bought a house in the Alpujarras (Driving over Lemons) a few years back for very reasonable money and I absolutely love it there. If I feel the need to mix with a load of drunk foreigners or to lie on a lounger soaked in someone else's sun oil on a beach I can be at the coast in Almerimar in less than an hour. Anytime I take a trip to the coast however I scuttle back to the hills as quickly as I can.

My few expat neighbours are mostly long-term residents, much more long-term than I am, most of whom tried the coast and quickly got tired of it. A lot of people who decide to move to Spain more or less permanently tend to automatically plump for the coast, but in a year or so they tire of the artificiality of it and move a bit inland in search of the good life.

The area where I live has some great value in houses, makes the coast look expensive, and prices seem to creep up every year. I would be loath to sell the place now, but its nice to know that I could make a few bob if I did decide to let it go.

No doubt though that Spain is now good value, regardless of where you want to buy. As Drapier pointed out, the market has cooled sufficiently to allow for getting discounts off market rates on a lot of the second-hand stuff on the costas in particular. The other draw is how easy and cheap it is to get to Spain now, making even weekends away quite feasible.

The other thing to remember of course is that in a buyers market like this, buying new or off-plan property in any area where there is a surplus of resale property is nothing short of crazy; why would anyone do that when they can buy the same property for up to 100k less in many cases? Of course this logic doesn't stop a lot of them from doing just that!
 
I have been purchasing property in the Murcia region on behalf of selective clients and would draw your attention to the beautiful inland areas where off urbanisation housing is still available at great prices. In many cases it is possible to buy a detached house in the countryside for less than an apartmentn on the macro urbanisations.

In any case check everything out and bargain hard, there are 4 new motorways a new airport in construction and a high speed train link about to commence. The government have faith in the growth. Well worth a visit
 
Ken,
Please name a few towns/areas.

Also, how about COIN, estepona, where Disney are rumored to be building a resort.

And, before ya'll jump up and down, I am NOT suggesting any1 buy on a rumour such as this.

I am currently selling my apartment in Spain and looking for something else, but not in an urbanisation, see below.

My best decision ever (actually is was wifey's) was buying in an area that the Spanish (holiday and mostly working spanish) are buying into so I should have no problems selling (it is priced realistically)

I have had approx. 6-8 weeks hols/annum over the last 5 years so have had value, just about as the costs run approx 1200/annum.

Now kid grown up, wife bored with same place, so next move is for retirement getaway breaks as I would never MOVE there.

The next purchase will be well thought out and I will proceed very slowly with my decision as I judge not buying in many of the areas I was shown as dodging the bullet.

I hope this helps some in their decision process

C
 
I am slowly getting through the various destinations that the budget airlines are flying to. Every six weeks or so I head off to a new destination/country whatever for a 4/5 day break. Having owned a mobile home in an overpriced site in Brittas Bay for a number of years I felt that in order to get value from the purchase I had to stay there most weekends over the summer. The fear I have is that if I purchase a holiday home in Spain/France I will feel compelled to go there at every available opportunity. At the moment I can enjoy a different culture every six weeks or so and all that goes with it. Can someone explain to me the attraction of owning an overseas home?
 
slurry: funny that you should say that. after reading (mostly auto's) a lot of the posts I am coming around to the idea of renting somebody else's apartment for the colder winter months. from what I read anyway its looks like a renters market from october to april. I too dont want to leave here and the thoughts of clearing off for 5/6 weeks at a time definitely have an appeal. know that lots of resorts are not year round but there's plenty that are.
 
Cuchulainn. I'm thinking of heading down toward the Carcassonne area for April, after Easter, to early May.(Just waiting for the AerLingus and Ryanair sales for that period). There are some very good rental properties available of the two bedroomed variety for about €50 per day. The two bedrooms would give me the choice of inviting down some other family members for a week/weekend and use the spare bedroom so to speak. I have also researched Lagos in Portugal for similar. At the moment I can get very good local information on the Tripadvisor forums. Have you researched any particular area. We are heading to Alicante in January and Sardinia in March but only for about 5 days each to sus out these locations for future longer term stays. Definitely renting someone else's property seems more beneficial than all the problems associated with ownership.
 
cerberos said:
Also, how about COIN, estepona, where Disney are rumored to be building a resort.C
Click to expand...

Not jumping up and down, but there is zero chance of Disney moving into Coin or Estepona (actually Manilva -- that was where the rumour centred last year!)

It's just another version of "ryanair are looking at the local airport" type of rumour; ignore it!
 
Someone correct me if I am wrong but are there issues surrounding title in Spain more so than in say France?
 
colc1 said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong but are there issues surrounding title in Spain more so than in say France?
Click to expand...
Of course not. You hear a lot of rubbish that sems to suggest that almost all countries other than Ireland are somehow savage places with no proper title to property and a dodgy legal system. Nothing could be further from the truth, and title in Spain or anywhere in Europe is generally as good as or better than you get at home.

You can sometimes get problems with title of individual properties in Spain, as you can in Ireland, but a good local lawyer will be your best advisor on title. The increasing use of Irish or English law firms to do such work in other markets is not the smartest way of doing things; inevitably they have no local knowledge, and indeed they almost always sublet the work to a firm in one of the big cities in Spain anyway, not always the best option.

I know of someone who had a good lawyer in Spain and needed to do some work around a sale of a Spanish property. He had heard scare stories about "foreign lawyers", and he decided to go to an Irish law firm that specialised in overseas work. He found to his surprise that they in turn sublet his work to his own original Spanish lawyer, but at double the rate he would have paid in Spain!
 
Auto320

Hi Auto,
Alpujarras or Almanacur for value.
I have reservation on buying old stuff cause of title or building quality complications.
I want a place for 1. resell stability 2. short stays going to longer in years ahead, 3. not for rental.

I suppose I am asking where is the best resalen value to be had in Spain - a. at the coast and b. inland
Any suggestions appreciated.
C
 
Recently,whilst in spain i decided to drive thru` the alpujarras.
I drove south from granada and first town was lanjoron which was nice enough and then on to orjiva which is 725m above sea level.Orgiva is a nice town with a hippy community living around it.
Further on and many hairpin bends as one drives basically along the sides of mountains,one arrives at mountain villages perched on the mountain slopes.
Trevelez is 1476m high....higher than the highest irish mountain and also much further than it looks on the map because of all the hairpin bends and the need for slower driving.
The weather is cooler but still fairly dry...maybe its fine in the summer with less extreme heat,but for me the alpujarras are too remote,unless one was fairly near a motorway and certainly not too high up.
The whole area is really mountains with steep gorges both up and down from the road.
finally down thru`berja to the coast road and an ocean of plastic greenhouses everywhere,even all the way to motril.
I have to confess i would prefer living in a more built up area either a resort on the coast or an inland city....possibly as a non spanish speaker i would have more social outlets.
 
I would agree with the thrust of Sunrock's post, i.e most buyers in Spain will in the first instance opt for the coastal resorts, surrounded by expats and English speaking Spaniards. However this surface view of Spain is one that does not last; you get tired of the resorts after a few years, and many long-term residents (either full time or part time) will choose to move away from the tourist areas to places with real communities and a lack of artificiality.

The Alpujarras though deserves a longer look than a quick drive through; if you approach the area from Almeria for instance, less than an hour's driving gets you into the heart of the eastern Alpujarras, with much lower prices than the western end, and with beautiful scenery and friendly towns and villages. Despite the lack of visible expat presence, they are there is large numbers, but are absorbed into the communities in which they live, working and living side by side with their Spanish neighbours. To find this out though, you have to get out of the car and stay a while in these small towns, and get to know the people and let them get to know you.

I did the coast thing in Spain myself for twenty years or more, but a few years ago an agent challenged me to come and see the real Spain, and I never looked back. Maybe it's my advancing years, but wild horses wouldn't drag me back to the coast and its union jack supermarkets and puking tourists.

I am always conscious though that this board is about property investment, not just lifestyle, but the Alpujarras more than ticks the boxes for me there. Prices are lower than the coast, running costs are much lower (no expensive drip-feed of community charges), and steady demand from Spaniards from the big cities as well as a lot of UK and north European buyers makes for prices that continue to climb each year. The eastern Alpujarras seems set to gain further from the movement of buyers who are getting priced out of the western end around Lanjaron, and huge investment in roads is making the eastern end more accessible by the year.

Still, it's horses for courses, and more people will buy coastal property each year than will buy in the mountains. I know which I prefer though!
 
auto320 said:
Not jumping up and down, but there is zero chance of Disney moving into Coin or Estepona (actually Manilva -- that was where the rumour centred last year!)

It's just another version of "ryanair are looking at the local airport" type of rumour; ignore it!
Click to expand...

Just to set the record straight Disney are planning a Summer Camp near Manilva but this is definately not a Theme Park! Local agents have been flogging property like crazy on the back of the 'Disney Theme Park' rumour for at least the last five years! It goes back to the original sites under consideration begfore Disney Paris was built and Estepona and Barcelona were both muted as options...
If anyone is thinking of buying on the Western Costa del Sol or Costa de la Luz please feel free to call me. My wife and I are investors ourselves and we have registered our own 'agency' in order to get commissions payable to agents on our purchases. If any Forum members seek our help we will give yoyu good impartial advice and will repay 40% of any commissions we receive should we find you a property... our website is [broken link removed]. Investors should click on 'Investment Hotspots' to see where we feel are some of the best opportunities around. See in particular Sahl Hasheesh and Medina Elvira...

Peter Mitry, Manilva, Spain
 
auto320 said:
I would agree with the thrust of Sunrock's post, i.e most buyers in Spain will in the first instance opt for the coastal resorts, surrounded by expats and English speaking Spaniards. However this surface view of Spain is one that does not last; you get tired of the resorts after a few years, and many long-term residents (either full time or part time) will choose to move away from the tourist areas to places with real communities and a lack of artificiality.

The Alpujarras though deserves a longer look than a quick drive through; if you approach the area from Almeria for instance, less than an hour's driving gets you into the heart of the eastern Alpujarras, with much lower prices than the western end, and with beautiful scenery and friendly towns and villages. Despite the lack of visible expat presence, they are there is large numbers, but are absorbed into the communities in which they live, working and living side by side with their Spanish neighbours. To find this out though, you have to get out of the car and stay a while in these small towns, and get to know the people and let them get to know you.

I did the coast thing in Spain myself for twenty years or more, but a few years ago an agent challenged me to come and see the real Spain, and I never looked back. Maybe it's my advancing years, but wild horses wouldn't drag me back to the coast and its union jack supermarkets and puking tourists.

I am always conscious though that this board is about property investment, not just lifestyle, but the Alpujarras more than ticks the boxes for me there. Prices are lower than the coast, running costs are much lower (no expensive drip-feed of community charges), and steady demand from Spaniards from the big cities as well as a lot of UK and north European buyers makes for prices that continue to climb each year. The eastern Alpujarras seems set to gain further from the movement of buyers who are getting priced out of the western end around Lanjaron, and huge investment in roads is making the eastern end more accessible by the year.

Still, it's horses for courses, and more people will buy coastal property each year than will buy in the mountains. I know which I prefer though!
Click to expand...

As a resident in Spain for more than 10 years I totally agree with auto 320's comments. The coast is for the first time buyers and sun worshippers who want to find a little bit of England in the sun! Since coming here in the 1990's we have lived on the Costa de la Luz and in the inland village of Jimena de la Frontera. We made a point of learning the language so at least we could co exist and integrate with our Spanish neighbours. After several years of mostly successful property investment we are now offering the benefit of our experience to others who wish to do as we have done. Please feel free to contact us if you have questions about living in Spain or even just about investment...
 
Wow! I keep reading a reccurring theme here regarding the Coastal properties in Spain. Especially from Auto320 whose comments I have generally agreed with and whose opinion until now I have respected. We live on the Coast and often refer to people like Auto320 as Pioneers. These are people who move into the Spanish countryside and villages and integrate with the local culture. It´s all wonderful until another expat decides to do the same thing. Just like Auto got fed up with living on the Coast and all of it´s "artificiality" he will soon tire of his little village in Alpujarras when all of his neighbors become expats. Then he´ll have to relocate even further inland. Sure there is a huge difference from the Coast to inland but don´t be fooled that prices are any more reasonable on inland properties. You get what you pay for. Its very much the same as living in the country or in the city. A flat in the center of London will greatly differ from what one can buy on the city´s edge or further into the country. Its up to the individual and their lifestyle. Perhaps Auto likes the quiet village life and doesn´t require schooling or a proximity to fine restaurants hotels golf clubs beach etc. Maybe he likes living up in the hills and doesn´t enjoy being close to the beach. Thats a personal choice. To suggest that those of us who choose otherwise are artificial is a little bit narrow minded. I have kids. We like to go to the beach. We can walk to it. I like the shopping malls and restaurants and I enjoy the fact that my children go to a Spanish school and meet other children from around the world who share one thing in common. They all live in a very cosmopolitan openminded part of the world. Yes we all know there are some not so nice drunken tourists who spoil things here but they are the exception not the rule. I don´t think I am artificial. I speak the language. I live in a fantastic community with Spanish and British and German neighbors and it´s 200 meters to the beach. I don´t mind shopping and hearing people speaking english. I´m not sure why you post invitations to Alpujarras Auto. The minute you bump into a few foreigners in your local grocer your going to have to pack your bags and move to Cazorla or Jaen Toledo or maybe just go back home to England or Ireland where pretty soon you´ll be outnumbered by foreigners and once again you can feel like a true Pioneer.
 
Wow! I keep reading a reccurring theme here regarding the Coastal properties in Spain. Especially from Auto320 whose comments I have generally agreed with and whose opinion until now I have respected. We live on the Coast and often refer to people like Auto320 as Pioneers. These are people who move into the Spanish countryside and villages and integrate with the local culture. It´s all wonderful until another expat decides to do the same thing. Just like Auto got fed up with living on the Coast and all of it´s "artificiality" he will soon tire of his little village in Alpujarras when all of his neighbors become expats. Then he´ll have to relocate even further inland. Sure there is a huge difference from the Coast to inland but don´t be fooled that prices are any more reasonable on inland properties. You get what you pay for. Its very much the same as living in the country or in the city. A flat in the center of London will greatly differ from what one can buy on the city´s edge or further into the country. Its up to the individual and their lifestyle. Perhaps Auto likes the quiet village life and doesn´t require schooling or a proximity to fine restaurants hotels golf clubs beach etc. Maybe he likes living up in the hills and doesn´t enjoy being close to the beach. Thats a personal choice. To suggest that those of us who choose otherwise are artificial is a little bit narrow minded. I have kids. We like to go to the beach. We can walk to it. I like the shopping malls and restaurants and I enjoy the fact that my children go to a Spanish school and meet other children from around the world who share one thing in common. They all live in a very cosmopolitan openminded part of the world. Yes we all know there are some not so nice drunken tourists who spoil things here but they are the exception not the rule. I don´t think I am artificial. I speak the language. I live in a fantastic community with Spanish and British and German neighbors and it´s 200 meters to the beach. I don´t mind shopping and hearing people speaking english. I´m not sure why you post invitations to Alpujarras Auto. The minute you bump into a few foreigners in your local grocer your going to have to pack your bags and move to Cazorla or Jaen Toledo or maybe just go back home to England or Ireland where pretty soon you´ll be outnumbered by foreigners and once again you can feel like a true Pioneer.
 
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