Duke of Marmalade
Registered User
- Messages
- 4,596
I'm afraid this does not have an answer. It's like asking when does a foetus become a citizen, if you pardon the topical analogy. As O'Bama said that question is above his pay grade and so too is the ARF question despite many getting paid handsomely for pretending to have the answer.That brings us right back to the original question posed – what's the optimum way of determining a reasonable allocation of assets within an ARF in a typical scenario?
This question can be summarised as would you prefer to have €20k in hand or €20k behind ARF gates. Since you almost certainly have to pay some tax when you or your children exit the ARF it seems to me better to have it in hand. There is gross roll up behind the gates but this shouldn't be over egged - it is not tax free interest, still have to pay tax on exit and after all there is 8 year gross roll up outside the gates.Hi Sarenco,
What’s your view on someone not taking their mandatory distribution?
For a 61 year old, an ARF of €1m can have a mandatory distribution of €40k or just pay tax of circa €20k.
If someone negotiatied a very cheap QFM charge and bought a really cheap ETF for example (say 40bps all in).
Gordon
This strategy leads to systematic increases in overall equity exposure, which seems counterintuitive.1) AmRF not subject to same drawdown requirements should have a more aggressive investment strategy than the ARF.
Colm Fagan doesn't agree. "Optimality" is personal not objective.2) 100% equities is a sub optimal strategy due to volatility drag
Other than transaction costs compulsory distributions are a red herring. You can always reinvest.3) The size of the fund and the variable requirement to take imputed distributions should inform the asset allocation decision 6% is materially different to 4%.
Absolutely. A report commissioned by the DoF suggests that combined provider/distributor costs on ARFs can be as high as 1.5% p.a. Only the most aggressive of strategies can expect to overcome that sort of burden.4) the charges incurred are another factor for consideration
I have covered these two points elsewhere.5) the annuity forgone should also be used as a hurdle for measuring how “successful” the arf strategy is. You’re not keeping up the Jones’s you are trying to do better than your own annuity rate after costs
6) I don’t think leaving money in the ARF and paying the tax from personal resources makes sense. If the value of the ARF falls you will have paid tax on money you lost.
I said "Optimality" was personal. I agree that all mathematics is objective.Volatility drag is a mathematical effect not a personal question
I know Colm Fagan is currently on a mission to persuade folk like this to be 100% equity and his arguments are powerful - I just don't have sufficient faith myself to promulgate that message.
are double Dutch, and references to100% equities is a sub optimal strategy due to volatility drag
make no sense whatsoever, nor doesmy current plan on retirement is to have roughly 15 years' worth of residual expenses in cash and fixed-income investments, with the balance (if there is a balance!) in equities.
If the property market tanks (remember that my investments are in different "countries", so we should think in terms of property markets rather than a single market) and my tenants in the eight apartments are still paying their rents on time, I don't care a whit about the market tanking; in fact, I may see it as a good opportunity to buy another apartment.It all comes down to sequencing of returns; basically, if you’re 100% invested in equities and you start drawing down from your ARF at 4% or 6% and markets tank, you have a problem, because you’re taking money out whilst the capital value of your ARF is falling and that capital never has the chance to recover.
Duke, I agree that my approach is only of interest to high net worth individuals, but the concept is valid irrespective of the size of the pot. My smoothing proposal, which also involves close to 100% investment in "real" assets, is designed for people like your "clients". It gives a very small weighting to current market values, which avoids the stupidity of estate agents pestering them every day.Your personal story is nonetheless fascinating but not really a model solution for my recently acquired "clients"
Agreed also, but I'm not interested in passing QFA exams, only in getting a reasonable return on my investments.You would surely fail your QFA exams with only 8 stocks
My approach is only of interest to high net worth individuals, but the concept is valid irrespective of the size of the pot.
Hi Bob, I've clocked off for the night - shop steward's orders. I'll come back to you in the morning.I'm a bit confused by what you wrote here.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?