How has the recession affected you?

Note that plenty of public servants are at the top of their scale, and so do not get increments.
 

Well hardly since the Bank of Ireland paid the first tranche of 3.5% pay increase under the National wage agreement towards 2016 in Feb. 2009 and AIB paid same in Oct. 2009.

All employees on union negotiated non pay for performance contracts receive incremental payments if applcable.
 
And can their employers afford them? If they can, good for them. But that is irrelevant to the issue that the public sector employer is insolvent and can't afford the continuing high level of pay.

Maybe this thread should be retitled to 'tell us your 2006 gross and net pay and how the recession has affected you'. Seriously - any public sector employees care to share this info beyond non-specific 'but I've had two paycuts' general moanings? I don't think I've seen one sympathetic case on AAM of a public sector employee hard hit by the recession.
 
What difference does it make if they are or not? If they are, it's because their employer can afford it.
 
Deiseblue said:
You tell me -is there any proof that they are not ?
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Not the way it works - you made the claim.

Should I start making claims about the PS and simply leave it up to you to disprove them rather than me provide evidence?

Anyway:

orka said:
What difference does it make if they are or not? If they are, it's because their employer can afford it.
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What he said.
 
orka said:
What difference does it make if they are or not? If they are, it's because their employer can afford it.
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+1.

There are, as suggested many employers that are still paying incriments, however they can afford these. However, there aren't many of these that didn't reduce headcount in the last few years and also the incriments are at the contractual minimum whereas in the boom the would have been in excess of the minimum.

However, as many have said, the employer is in a position to pay the incriments, if they weren't, they wouldn't.
 
orka said:
I don't think I've seen one sympathetic case on AAM of a public sector employee hard hit by the recession.
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So we need sob-stories of overspending and borrowed investments before the impacts are taken seriously?

For the record, I had increments in salary for every of year of my 25+ years in the private sector, across a range of multi-nationals and indigineous (sp?) industries, included the bad years of the 80's.
 
Complainer said:
So we need sob-stories of overspending and borrowed investments before the impacts are taken seriously?
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Apologies if that's what it looks like I am asking for - this is the exact opposite of what I want to see - borrowing levels and overspending are irrelevant to what I am trying to discuss. Public sector employees seem to imply that they have had it tough because they have had two pay cuts, pension contributions etc. - but I don't think things are that bad when you compare say, 2006 net pay levels with 2010 ones. Increments and pay scale increases have been generous over the past few years - so from what I can see net pay levels are, at worst, back to 2006 levels - maybe a couple of percent lower for those who didn't get an increment in that time. A far cry from the 'I've taken 13% pay cuts' moans we often see/hear about. Tell us the progression over the past few years before you look for sympathy.

Complainer said:
For the record, I had increments in salary for every of year of my 25+ years in the private sector, across a range of multi-nationals and indigineous (sp?) industries, included the bad years of the 80's.
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I'm happy for you. I bought a nice sandwich for my lunch today - it was very tasty.
 
Caveat said:
Not the way it works - you made the claim.

Should I start making claims about the PS and simply leave it up to you to disprove them rather than me provide evidence?

Anyway:



What he said.
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All the retailers I mentioned employ incremental scales , I have seen nothing in the media to suggest that they have stopped doing so , I have heard none of the Unions stating that increments are no longer being paid - if such was the case I'm sure the Unions would have made it public - would'nt you ?

As I've stated the banks and semi states operate incremental salaries though in the case of the former it really shoots down the argument that only those who can afford to , do so.

The government have accepted that reform allied to a policy of voluntary redundancies and a 4 year pay freeze is the best policy to extract the required savings in the PS rather than pay cuts , I am acutely aware that people have huge problems with that course of action but it is the agreement between employers and employees currently on the table and at least delivers industrial stability which stability could be disastrously impacted by further pay cuts - let's not forget that FG and labour have also stated that they will honour the CP agreement if elected.

Encouragingly both Dara Calleary and Leo Varadkar stated on drivetime that PS pay cuts were not on the agenda although Leo said a ceiling of euro 200,000 will be imposed by FG if in power.

I know that people are of the opinion that the IMF if they come in will slash Public Sector pay straightaway but that really is not their remit , sure they will tell whatever Government is in power that savings must be made but that does not neccessarily mean PS pay is impacted as with the unions being so strong we may see the aforementioned PS reform being pursued with more alacrity than that shown at present but who knows what the coming months will unveil ?
 
Deiseblue said:
Encouragingly both Dara Calleary and Leo Varadkar stated on drivetime that PS pay cuts were not on the agenda ...
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Maybe encouragingly for PS workers - but depressingly for those of us who harbour hopes that this country has some hope of getting its costs under control so we can control our own destiny.
Deiseblue said:
...although Leo said a ceiling of euro 200,000 will be imposed by FG if in power.
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Way too high a cap to be of any use. Only Brian C, maybe Mary C and a few other high level ministers would be affected by this within government; no civil servant has a salary greater than 200K (although, hope springing eternal, this would be better if it was a full salary and benefits cap including notional pension contributions). That only leave hospital consultants (and maybe some other professionals and/or semi-state executives?) - and I can't see them taking a paycut lying down - plus the better, younger and future ones will just leave the country.
 

Let's get real - numbers in the PS have risen significantly over the last 2 years, for evidence - read data (provided by official bodies) in newspapers over recent months. Also, PS pay is not frozen, it is increasing - it won't be long before the pay cuts are reversed through payment of increments, for evidence, see tons of data from official bodies on the internet e.g.
Grade VII in the Health Service

[Recommended scale should read as follows:

€38,503 - €39,478 - €40,620 - €41,764 - €42,913 - €43,938 – €44,983 - €45,999 - €47,008 - €48,7461 - €50,4892

- Grade VI in the Health Service

Recommended scale should read as follows:

€36,701 - €37,620 - €38,733 - €40,817 - €42,065 - €43,6151 - €45,1752 [/I]

It is absolutely nuts that a bankrupt country is paying increments to hundreds of thousands of employees. No wonder the unions embraced the Croke Park deal - no forced redundancies, very generous (voluntary)redundancy payments, no sustained pay cuts due to ongoing pay increases through increments - and no real change to work practices.

Compare to the private sector - hundreds of thousands of forced redundancies, real pay cuts and freezes - including increments. And where private companies are paying increments, they have made a judgement call that they are generating enough profit to make these payments. By the way, most private sector companies have moved/are moving away from incremental scales - replacing them with pay progression through performance related pay, with length of service no longer a factor.

This truly is a sick country......
 
My pay is cut, I got rid of my phone, rid of Sky, don't go out as much, cut back all round generally. No holiday this year. Nothing coming in the door but bills and a big mortgage. Feeling quite concerned about the coming budget,
 
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