how binding is a pre-planning meeting? sightline increased from 65m to 135?

I am currently going through planning permission. Prior to engaging an architect and applying for permission I had a pre-planning meeting with the Council to check to see if a house was likely to be approved on the site. As I got a favourable response from this meeting I went ahead. At the meeting it was specifically stated that 65m sightlines would be required from the proposed entrance and this was noted on the pre-planning form.
I successfully negotiated with a neighbour to move their ditch to create this required sightline and submitted my application.

Yesterday I recieved a request for further info from the Council. This stated that a sightline of 135m would be required. This is not achieveable for the site.

My question is as follows, how binding is a pre-planning meeting? I went ahead with the planning process based on the info I was given at the meeting i.e. 65m. Had I been told that 135m was required I wouldn't have started as I knew this was not possible. I've spent in the region of €20k thus far which will be for nothing if things remain as there are.

Has anyone else had similiar problems? Is it possible to sue the Council for monies wasted due to incorrect information provided by them?

I'd be grateful for any advice you could give me.

Re: Problem with Planning Permission

Alot of these situations come down o legal opinion based on written facts. I would advise you to talk to your solicitor. You may have a case and you may not depending on exact wording on forms etc etc. The best your claim could be may be for negligence by the person you had the meeting with.

In relation to getting planning you might want to check out your county's current development plan and see exactly what sightlines are required in it. This is the basis for your planning application.

Best of Luck either way

KKelliher

Re: Problem with Planning Permission

Any chance the road has been upgraded since the preplanning meeting?

If it was it might explain why the sight lines requirements have increased.

You don't have anything in writing from the preplanning meeting I imagine so you'd be well pressed to prove anything. I've always been lead to believe that anything they say is for guideline only i.e. non-binding.

I was told in mine that the dreaded "local needs" clause could be applied to me when in fact it couldn't. I did get planning with no question of local needs.

I do sympathise though on the 20K...

Exact same situation happened with me waterford county council at a pre planning meeting stated 65m, wrote back at a later date stating 120m was required this is the distance stated for a regional road in most county developement plans. As for a come back with the council i was told it was a mistake on the junior engineers behalf and pre planning are not binding in any way apparently they are just one persons opionion.

Policies always change within the councils..... do you know for sure this hasnt happened since you had you preplanning meeting...??

To be honest ive found pre planning meetings to be a waste of time 90% of the time.. all they do is reiterate the county development plan....

in your particular situation it may have been the planners opinion that 65 m was sufficient, yet the 135 m sightline may be a requirement coming from a road design engineer...... therefore the planner is in the clear...
do you have minutes of this meeting??? was it all word of mouth???

are you able to tell us why 135 m of sightline has been asked for???

your agent may be able to get the sightlines to comply with NRA guidelines,....then if the council refuse permission, the the Bord is always an option, however traffic safety is an easily provable issue, and if you cannot confrom to safe sightlines then the site is not suitable for a house, as straighforward as that unfortunately.......

Preplanning meetings are not binding in any way and are intended as a guide only.

It is likely that your planning application was referred by the case officer (planner for your application) to the Roads Department of the Local Authority and a roads engineer subsequently recommended the sight lines you received in the Request for Further Information.

Depending on the class of road onto which you want to gain access different sightlines are required.

See:
[broken link removed]

I'd recommend ringing the Planner involved and Roads Department - see if they would be happy with 90m (or whatever you can achieve)... they should be able to give you a fairly good indication of what they will accept and what they will not.

Relevant part of the Act governing Pre Planning Meetings:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0030/sec0247.html#partxviii-sec247

The pre-planning meeting is presumably not a full application for planning permission. One should not expect the full technical examination and decision at that meeting.

Brendan

The 20k I've spent thus far was for architects fees, level survey, perc test etc etc so cart remains where it should be!!

Unfortunately it will prove impossible for me to come up with much more than the 65m originally requested due to local conditions. I suppose the thing which is annoying me most about this is that my entrance is/was going between 2 houses built in the last few years for which PP was successful. I know its a simplistic comment but how is it possible that a house on either side of you can get PP with respect to adequate sightlines yet a house in the middle can't!!!! Only in Ireland

Hi Parper,
Just to leave no stone unturned, why not get the planning file numbers of those two houses from the GIS on your local co co web site and go down to the office to pull the files to find out how they got planning with their site lines. Although I'm surprised they haven't got you on ribbon development or infill. I was looking for planning last year and looked up many many applications just to see why they were refused or granted and really it was very hit and miss. But you'd be amazed what you find in these files.