How are shares in public companies split in probate?

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Mr Eastwood

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I am seeking advice on the following

A widower has a house worth about €150,000, cash to the value of about €30,000 and shares in two companies, current valued at about €50,000. Just to clarify, he has about €30,000 in Kerry Group shares, and about €20,000 in Kerry Co-Operative Creameries shares. For info, Kerry Co-Operative Creameries shares cannot be sold on the stock market; however there does seem to be a private market for them.

He wants to make a will to distribute his estate as follows: House to one of his daughters. He then wants the total of his shares and cash to be divided in the following proportions: 10% to the daughter who will inherit the house, 10% to one of his sons, and 40% each to the remaining son and daughter.

My question is: can the shares be inherited by the four children in the requested proportions. If this can be done would both companies issue 4 new share certificates in the required proportions, or would some other system be used to achieve the required division.

Any advice greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance.
 
With publicly quoted shares this is certainly possible. With unquoted shares, the company can write their own rules on share transfers. When my father died he had considerable shares in an unquoted company. There was no market to sell the shares and the board would only sanction transfer to existing shareholders (fortunately two of the beneficiaries were shareholders and were happy to take the shares)
 
Thanks Homer911

Since my last post I have had some thoughts on this. Is it possible that one daughter receives the Kerry Group shares + some cash, (40%), one son receives the Co-Op shares +some cash (40%), remaining son and daughter receive cash to the valve of 10%. All beneficiaries in this particular case would have no problem with this arrangement.

I have never been the executor of a will so I have no idea how it works. Would the executor have the discretion/authority to distribute the estate as above? If he does have that authority would the two companies involved be allowed to transfer the shares in that manner, or are they bound to distribute as per the will instructions.
 
and of course the value of the shares may have changed greatly by the time the will is proved and the distribution done. If they are lucky, someone will do a Gamestop on the Coop shares :)
 
Of course I absolutely agree that the executor must distribute the estate as per the will, and indeed the cash value as well as the share value could change also.

Purely for the purpose of educating myself as a future executer, (as I presently have no idea) can I ask the following hypothetical but simpler question.

A widower whose entire estate at the time of death consists of, cash of €90,000 and company shares of €10,000 wishes to divide his estate 50/50 among his 2 children. Will the executer be allowed to give one sibling €50,000 and the other all the shares + €40,000. Also, will the company transfer all the shared to one sibling, or will they be bound to split them 50/50
 
Mr Eastwood said:
Of course I absolutely agree that the executor must distribute the estate as per the will, and indeed the cash value as well as the share value could change also.

Purely for the purpose of educating myself as a future executer, (as I presently have no idea) can I ask the following hypothetical but simpler question.

A widower whose entire estate at the time of death consists of, cash of €90,000 and company shares of €10,000 wishes to divide his estate 50/50 among his 2 children. Will the executer be allowed to give one sibling €50,000 and the other all the shares + €40,000. Also, will the company transfer all the shared to one sibling, or will they be bound to split them 50/50
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If I was the Executor, I'd want to get the agreement of the beneficiaries to such an arrangement. If they disagree and the shares cannot be immediately sold, then they need to be split 50:50. Shares can go down in value as well as up. The Executor does not want to be open a claim by a beneficiary for loss of value. The beneficiaries might want independent advice before taking on or releasing more than half the shares. And yes, the company will split or transfer the shares as the Executor requests. I was dealing with an Estate recently where there were about 10 publicly quoted shareholdings, all certificated and one of the seven beneficiaries wanted to take shares. A pain in the butt, so I said I was selling them all and he could buy what he wanted later with his share of the proceeds after tax
 
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@Mr Eastwood

I think allocating the shares in the different companies to different beneficiaries could end badly. Values will fluctuate too much.

Imagine if someone had drawn up a will in 2005 leaving their Anglo shares to their son and their Apple shares to their daughter.
 
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Thanks Homer911

That's very useful information for me who had no clue. From your response I now know that an executer also has the authority to sell shares and pay the beneficiaries in cash. I didn't know that an executor had that much authority. If I go that route I'm guessing that the shares will all be transferred to me first for the purpose of selling them. When the time comes I will now be more educated in this regard.

Ref NoRegretsCoyote's advice, whatever system will be used to distribute the estate would be discussed and agreed with all beneficiaries. In this particular case all 4 beneficiaries are very reasonable people.

Thanks to all again. All further comments welcome
 
Mr Eastwood said:
whatever system will be used to distribute the estate would be discussed and agreed with all beneficiaries.
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Just to be clear, and this is a general point not specific to your situation, the executor does not need the agreement of any or all beneficiaries to proceed with the distribution of the estate. Nice to have and avoids future resentments or conflicts but the key responsibilities of the executor are to gather and protect the value in the real and personal assets of the estate, pay outstanding creditors, including the tax-man and pay the beneficiaries as per the wishes expressed in the will. Relationships or the counselling thereof don't figure.

In your case you seem fortunate in that regard.
 
Isn’t the “power of appropriation” normal enough in the context of administering an estate?

Fine of specific people have been bequeathed specific assets, but where an estate is crudely split 50:50, my understanding is that what normally takes place is that the executor(s) can use their commonsense.
 
Kerry Co-op were doing a share redemption programme before Christmas. It has ended but it could be worth reaching out to the Co-Op to see if they're doing it again at some stage in the future
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Isn’t the “power of appropriation” normal enough in the context of administering an estate?

Fine of specific people have been bequeathed specific assets, but where an estate is crudely split 50:50, my understanding is that what normally takes place is that the executor(s) can use their commonsense.
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After googling “power of appropriation”. I understand that now, useful information. Thanks Gordon
 
Peanuts20 said:
Kerry Co-op were doing a share redemption programme before Christmas. It has ended but it could be worth reaching out to the Co-Op to see if they're doing it again at some stage in the future
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Thanks Peanuts20 The widower in question got a leaflet outlining in good detail the share redemption programme. It states strangely, that income tax at marginal rate is payable on redeemed shares, not CGT. If the shares are inherited there will be no income or CGT payable by the beneficiaries as will be well below the threshold
 
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