How and where to lay pipes for central heating-best type??

N

NOAH

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I am back! The quotes I have been getting for building work to re-furbish an old bungalow have been so off the wall that I am forced to do the mucky bits myself. I have at last got a quote for all the building work on its own. This leaves me with putting in ch etc and that's where I am struggling.

This is a bog standard bungalow built in 1975, rooms are large eg living room has 2 large windows and has 2 rads under 2 windows. I want to replace the lot so everything new. It is to be oil fired. I would like a fancy boiler eg condensing or combi but have been told there is no expertise where I live.

Here's my q's.

What are the best rads with thermosats?

I want to run pipes under the floors but do not have a clue on how to run pipes and do I need a fall for hot and cold?? How deep? What's best copper or that other stuff eg sounds llike qualpex( I thought copper was it)

I intend to have boiler in its own little area, an enclosure built in to back of garage, I would like to have it in utility room but everyone is putting me off eg noisy, may smell etc. Does it really matter? I have to use oil as gas not near me yet. Water presure not the best so I was going to opt for a 120 btu firebird. I can gauge rads by measuring room sizes but intend to over supply as old bungalows can be cold. I will put in wall insulation, double glazing, loft etc but dont want to be cold. Floors will be a mixture of wood, tiles, carpets. I have read books but not a great help.

Quotes are combined with building work but one was €17, 200 plus vat to plumb and a complete re-wire. And I was to buy my own boiler.The re-wire was based on 3 powerpoints per room!! I have loads of kit so need LOTS of pp's. I dont have the money to pay that much.

Any hints/tips well received.

noah
 
That's a big job for a novice, do you have any hands-on plumbing experience? For some practical advice on designing your heating system you could do worse than check out two reference books: Mueller Europe (formerly known as Wednesbury Tube) who have a (free) handbook on designing domestic heating systems. Next I'd suggest Collins "Complete Plumbing and Central Heating Systems". But this is a steep learning curve and mistakes in the basic design could be expensive or difficult to rectify when pipes are buried in concrete, so I would recommend you engage the services of a plumber to look at your design and advise on first fix, pipe runs etc. This shouldn't cost the earth and would be money well spent- the advice of an experienced installer won't be found in any website or book. For economy and less jointing etc you should consider using "Qualpex" barrier pipe for the heating installation, joined with compression fittings. "Tectite" fittings are an option also but I'm not convinced about burying them in floors, just in case. You could also use Hepworth Hep20 and their range of push in fittings- these are being increasingly used in domestic housing schemes for speed (and lack of traditional plumbing craft I think!). Copper is still the Rolls Royce of plumbing pipe and is used in most commercial work, personally I'd pipe all visible pipework (even behind sinks etc) in copper with solder or compression fittings. Include lots of minature service valves and gate valves on the installation and you'll thank yourself for it down the road when you need to change a washer or carry out maintenance. Include first fix for a water softener in addition to all the usual appliances. Don't skimp on the insulation or the Hot Storage Cylinder, go for one with a temperature probe and fit a 3 port bypass on the primary coil. Zoned heating is a must and if you really want to be clever why not integrate a solar heating panel into your system (easily offset by the money you'll save on labour). Personally I'd love the challenge of a job like this but it will be time consuming and you'll have to buy some kit, including a pipe bender (expect to pay €120 for a Rothenberger bender), a series of pipe slices and rotary cutters (Rothenberger, Copex and Monument make the best plumbing kit). Good luck with it.
 
Totally aside to this. I rented a cottage last summer where all the radiator pipes were brought out from the wall. Great for tiling or wood floors - no cutting around the pipework. What a clever idea..
 
that must have been a new house or false walls, this is a solid bungalow.

Thanks carpenter for a great post as usual. I have been off seeing builders and getting quotes.

The latest is €16117 inc vat for heating and plumbing but excluding sanitary ware,

then another charge of €4224 for drainage, this I take to mean new sewer pipes, new soakways, and to connect to existing septic tank with a manhole to be used for later connection to main sewer that may have to be pumped.

It seems an awful lot for a 2000 sq ft bungalow. I will have 15 radiators, of the double fin type but not those that leave dust stain if possible, an oil burner to be sited in utility room, with a btu of 90/120. Copper pies underground, thermostats on all rads with a convection type rad in kitchen N New water tank and header tank, pipe in loft to be qualpex.

noah
 
Make sure rads are fitted with Thermostatic Rad Valves and look at fitting a "surrey" flange on the Hot Water Cylinder- this allows you to pipe a shower with it's own independent draw off point from the cylinder (no more cold spots in the shower when someone turns on a hot tap elsewhere in the house).
 
Help, I am now getting to the stage where the plumber is required, I am still unsure about zoned heating and how it works, there are only 2 of us, and I have turned 1 bedroom into a bathroom, and another into and office, so in effect we have only 2 bedroooms although the office can convert =back easy and the new extension which will be a gym/xtra living room has an ensuite off so that can become a bedroom as well = 4 beds for resale. My idea of zoned is u heat living area when in it and then bedroom area when required but as I only have 2 beds I am opting for a powerful pump, condensing boiler, a mix of solo rads and barlo rads, thermostats on rads and linked to a timed thermostat control.

This is the tricky bit, the floor has been kangoed but plumber has opted to go straight down the corridor and hallway, then no doubt branch off to rads but as top floor was shallow I am not convinced I am going to have sufficinet cover over insulated 25mm or 3/4 inch copper pipe. Builder has said raft is narrow near centre and may crack if we kango into it, engineer said use angle grinder which plumber said was too dusty.!! Is there a definitive guide to running pipes? Should I insist plumber runs them in hall but puts them as close to wall as possible? Or should I insist he uses the runs that were used for the old system ie take out old and replace with new? Is there any super duper gadget that will cut into raft and allow me to have pipes 4" down? Cover is about 1 and a half at the moment but I intend to put ceramic tiles on as well. I am worried that pipes are going where there will be a lot of traffic. The old pipes are still in situ but he only intends to pull out old that is directly in his way. I was happy originally but the lack of depth now is worrying me. My builder is not happy that I am going direct route so he is not a great help.
I am having a pump in cupboard for 2 power showers and an electric in the other en suite.
I am going to have 18 rads max plus a kicker. Area is 2000 sq ft and I am putting a rad in garage as that may become a room in the future.

Help!

noah
 
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