It's also worth noting that the 17 billion Intel Fab 34 investment is consuming a considerable amount of the available construction labour. I appreciate that it isn't the same as building houses but there is a lot of labour tied up on the job that would otherwise be building other things. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just pointing it out. Of course the construction sector is grossly inefficient and that labour intensity shouldn't be necessary but that's a different discussion.BAM also building the intel fab34 facility, a 17billion investment, it dwarfs the national children's hospital, biggest private investment in history of state Therefore blaming everything on private contractors which varadker tried to do and then backed off when bam threatened to pull out doesn't wash. Alot of delays in intel construction and housing were caused by government shutting down the whole construction industry during covid, which nobody else did to that extent. The problems with children's hospital can be layer at state own tendering and procurement policies
It goes deeper than the above. We did indeed build public housing but the State refuses to deal with anti social issues, non payment of rent etc. The is only a recent new (last 15 yrs or so).The government isn't building the new children's hospital. BAM is after a tender. Same as with public housing the government is simply purchasing it from the private market. In fact it's actually a great example of how relying on the private market for everything isn't a panacea.
The difference being most people aren't in the market for a children's hospital themselves. They are however in the market for the houses the government is competing against them to buy/lease.
I think when people say the government should be building something, they mean a state or semi state company should be building it.
Or promote education. Most of the disadvantaged without ‘capital’ are heavily reliant on social welfare.That disparity is driven by the inflation of Capital (wealth) relative to wages. Those who own Capital can buy more capital (houses), those who don't can't. There's a reason we've seen a massive increase in tax receipts from capital intensive industries (Corporation tax) relative to income taxes, despite having very high marginal income taxes. The State then uses those tax receipts to bridge the gap between earned income and capital values, or rents on capital. Those who rely on wages only are disadvantaged. That leads to a bigger State that needs to intervene more and more to provide people with what they used to be able to provide for themselves. That leads to a kind of poverty trap.
It's not just houses that have inflated, it's all capital items. Look at the stock market gains over the last 2 decades. You now have to earn way more to buy a house, but the same can be said for most Stocks. That's the reason for the issue you are highlighting. The only solution is to close the gap between wages and Capital values.
The inventive to get a higher education is falling. You can spend years getting educated to then spend years working full time with still little hope of owning "capital". As this whole thread is discussing, the incentive to be "middle class" is falling. As some of my examples show, after housing is accounted for, you'd often be in a similar money situation regardless.Or promote education. Most of the disadvantaged without ‘capital’ are heavily reliant on social welfare.
Education and aspirations to be middle class are not necessarily mutual in my experience. An address does not make one middle class either. In The Journal on Sundays a interesting and current observation on income, savings and home ownership is run called Money Diaries. It is worth reading as those who are well educated are in good jobs with homes, savings, pensions and have share options.The inventive to get a higher education is falling. You can spend years getting educated to then spend years working full time with still little hope of owning "capital". As this whole thread is discussing, the incentive to be "middle class" is dying. As some of my examples show, after housing is accounted for, you'd often be in a similar money situation regardless.
It had nothing to do with education. Those without capital have to work more than twice as hard as I did to gain the same capital I have since their labour is worth half as much as mine relative to capital as was 30 years ago when I started working and marginal tax rates are much higher now so they get to keep less of what they do earn. This is all about the "haves", which is older people, and the "have nots", which is younger people who won't inherit or be gifted capital, and what is becoming a permanent gap between the two. Housing is just the most visible symptom of the problem.Or promote education. Most of the disadvantaged without ‘capital’ are heavily reliant on social welfare.
So someone from a socially deprived area who grow up in a council house but have a degree and work hard in their public sector job will find it just as easy to buy a house and become part of the property owning middle class as their equivalent 30 years ago. Is that what you are saying?Education and aspirations to be middle class are not necessarily mutual in my experience. An address does not make one middle class either. In The Journal on Sundays a interesting and current observation on income, savings and home ownership is run called Money Diaries. It is worth reading as those who are well educated are in good jobs with homes, savings, pensions and have share options.
Exactly. What was the middle class is becoming renters and reliant on State supports for housing. That's not good for society or democracy.The inventive to get a higher education is falling. You can spend years getting educated to then spend years working full time with still little hope of owning "capital". As this whole thread is discussing, the incentive to be "middle class" is falling. As some of my examples show, after housing is accounted for, you'd often be in a similar money situation regardless.
Where you come from does not dictate your future. Working in the Public Sector is a job for life. The grade you have depends on your education. An example would be an economics degree for the Dept of Finance. A clerical officer will find it difficult to buy in Dublin but has the luxury of a transfer to other parts of the country. Nearly all of the people who I know aged 30+ have bought homes. Could you define Middle Class?So someone from a socially deprived area who grow up in a council house but have a degree and work hard in their public sector job will find it just as easy to buy a house and become part of the property owning middle class as their equivalent 30 years ago. Is that what you are saying?
Modern rises in living standards have meant that the economics of providing heavily-subsidised lifetime housing to a substantial proportion of a national population have become totally unworkable.We have to get back to building local authority homes.
They don't have to be built as they were in the past.
Those living in Social Houses will be the haves in a few years time. What then?It had nothing to do with education. Those without capital have to work more than twice as hard as I did to gain the same capital I have since their labour is worth half as much as mine relative to capital as was 30 years ago when I started working and marginal tax rates are much higher now so they get to keep less of what they do earn. This is all about the "haves", which is older people, and the "have nots", which is younger people who won't inherit or be gifted capital, and what is becoming a permanent gap between the two. Housing is just the most visible symptom of the problem.
The way I see it is that the difficulties now are by no means greater than they were in the past when people were moved from unsanitary decaying tenements into "modern" suburban homes.Modern rises in living standards have meant that the economics of providing heavily-subsidised lifetime housing to a substantial proportion of a national population have become totally unworkable.
Those homes were built using what we would now term slave labour.The way I see it is that the difficulties now are by no means greater than they were in the past when people were moved from unsanitary decaying tenements into "modern" suburban homes.
You don't seem to understand the basic issue that labour is worth far less relative to capital than it was 30 years ago and so inherited wealth is becoming more and more important when determining the economic position of people in society.Where you come from does not dictate your future. Working in the Public Sector is a job for life. The grade you have depends on your education. An example would be an economics degree for the Dept of Finance. A clerical officer will find it difficult to buy in Dublin but has the luxury of a transfer to other parts of the country. Nearly all of the people who I know aged 30+ have bought homes. Could you define Middle Class?
Have you worked this out?That just didn't happen 30 years ago because marginal tax rates were lower
Depends on how you build them. Look at the some of the part 8 local authority developments were they are purpose built (private tender) social and affordable purchase homes. They are designed with cost effectiveness in mind and generally cost less. €200k to €400k in today's post inflation prices. Some were sub 200k pre 2020, for example a development in Ballymun which geographically is a prime location in terms of proximity to the city centre.Modern rises in living standards have meant that the economics of providing heavily-subsidised lifetime housing to a substantial proportion of a national population have become totally unworkable.
€200k to €400k in today's post inflation prices.
Also with large migration inflows into Ireland and other European countries, not a largely static population with relatively small internal population flows like we used to have in 70s and 80s, providing social housing like beforehand is no longer sustainable. For example the bar for an Irish immigrant to Australia or Canada to get social housing is very high, you can't get into Australia as a permanent resident unless you already have a skill that commands high income therefore automatically disqualified from social housingModern rises in living standards have meant that the economics of providing heavily-subsidised lifetime housing to a substantial proportion of a national population have become totally unworkable.
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