House Valuation - Self Build

Nearly finished our self build and just applied for a top up on our mortgage (€20k - due to serious problems with sloped site, drainage & some spec upgrades). We only borrowed 2.5 times our salaries for the build and have been told by the bank manager that we can borrow up to 4 times. We just had the house valued by the bank again (for top up) and their valuer has put a value of €77 per sq/ft on the house construction itself (site valued seperately). It has cost us €82 p/ sq ft to build so now it appears we are in negative equity (on the build cost) and their is no hope of a top up. I would have thought that €82 was a good rate for a completely finished house with high spec finishes? The valuer said his reasoning is that the house is too big (3600 sq ft incl garage). He said that someone can go out and buy a 4 bed house (1500 sqft) for 200k so there would be no market for our house. I agree there may be no market for our house but we dont intend to sell it anytime soon. There doesnt seem to be much hope for self builders if you cant even get a mortgage to cover the actual cost of the build. Has anyone else had the same problem recently?

I'm not sure the Bank Valuer has commented correctly here, but at this distance from the action its impossible to say.
"He said that someone can go out and buy a 4 bed house (1500 sqft) for 200k so there would be no market for our house"

This appears to be a nonsense statement - your house is significantly bigger, on its own site and to a higher specification than an estate Semi-D or detached four bed.
He may be simply trying to put a brake on your "topping up", but for him to comment definitively he has to show that there is no market for your kind of house beyond the equivalent cost of a spec 4 bed.

I don't think he can credibly do this unless he has canvassed all the estate agents in the area.
You may have lost the run of yourself a little on the ropping up but that doesn't seem like sufficient reason for him to make this finding
I stongly suggest that if you want to counter his valuation you get one done yourselves but, before that, you research the asking prices and achieved sales prices of similar houses in your area.

I cannot comment definitively, because I do not know the area, but I'll offer the following information.
On a Dublin site we oversaw a costing on recently the house proper came in at circa €85 a square foot or so.
Now rural tenders may achieve even lower prices, but even so I'd have thought €82 a square foot was reasonable.

The other issue is whether the house has complied fully with the building regulations in terms of insulation and heating systems.
Compliance with current standards is essential for the house to be competitive in the post 2013 market, where Carbon Neutral is required.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

Thanks for your reply ONQ. The house is fully compliant with planning & regs and has acheived an A3 rating (just had BER done). High spec finishes have been used (natural slates, triple glazing, bespoke inlaid kitchen etc). Similar sized houses in the area are on the market for 400-450k and one has sold for €430k (Not sure if actually exchanged but sold sign up and this was the final asking price (may have sold for a lot less)). Our house has been valued at 320k. I advised the valuer of the market prices in the locality but he did not seem interested and said he had a different system for valuing property. Think we will just live with what we have and finish it off over time.

ONQ - to jump on this thread for a moment please..
You mentioned a Dublin recent example of your costing 85/sq ft. Im trying to ballpark to build cost in South Dublin of a 2,000 sq ft detached, dormer style, 2 storey house in the current market. For a relatively high spec, but non complex design what price range should I work to initially, until I do a more detailed one later? Also whats NOT INCLUDED in that price/sq ft ballpart.
Incidentally,many thanks - and congrats for the numerous excellent and detailed responses you provide on this site free gratis..

tullyhumphry said:

Thanks for your reply ONQ. The house is fully compliant with planning & regs and has acheived an A3 rating (just had BER done). High spec finishes have been used (natural slates, triple glazing, bespoke inlaid kitchen etc). Similar sized houses in the area are on the market for 400-450k and one has sold for €430k (Not sure if actually exchanged but sold sign up and this was the final asking price (may have sold for a lot less)). Our house has been valued at 320k. I advised the valuer of the market prices in the locality but he did not seem interested and said he had a different system for valuing property. Think we will just live with what we have and finish it off over time.

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You're very welcome tullyhumphry.

How you deal with it is entirely your call, I wouldn't suggest you rock that boat.

Its just that his comments seem totally unjustified in terms of your local market, given that you haven't skimped on compliance.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

runner said:

ONQ - to jump on this thread for a moment please..
You mentioned a Dublin recent example of your costing 85/sq ft. Im trying to ballpark to build cost in South Dublin of a 2,000 sq ft detached, dormer style, 2 storey house in the current market. For a relatively high spec, but non complex design what price range should I work to initially, until I do a more detailed one later? Also whats NOT INCLUDED in that price/sq ft ballpart.
Incidentally,many thanks - and congrats for the numerous excellent and detailed responses you provide on this site free gratis..

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Hi runner,

Again, you're very welcome and thanks for expressing your opinion.

The site owner Brendan Burgess strives to bring good advice on all matters to the public area and I lik to be seen to hold up my end.



In relation a ball park figure, €85 was achieved for the house proper only, from foundations to roof, with a basic fit out.

You could spend 100,000 Euro on a Chalon kitchen, or you could put in a serviceable one for €7,000.

Similarly if you increase the spec for doors, architraves and skirtings from spray-painted mdf to pine, the price will go up.

This price didn't include landscaping, for example, nor major groundworks or drainage supporting the house.

It did allow for a basic electrical spec and a decent heating system as asll as compliant construction under current regs.

It had a well-braced timber upper floor with 225 x 44 timbers spanning less than 4.5M and a concrete ground floor, uPVC windows, timber front door.

As I said, this was worked down to a price, not up to a spec.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

Thank you ONQ, much appeciated. I can ballpark from that.
Runner

runner said:

Thank you ONQ, much appeciated. I can ballpark from that.
Runner

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Runner,

Just a note of caution on ballparking.

We starting out looking at figures from the Bruce Shaw guidelines on rebuilding costs which put estate houses in Dublin at €180 a suare foot of so including some fees and other matters.

We were distracted by a figure for a shop fit-out by direct labour for under €50 a square - turns out this was shell only, limited services, not a full build.

The €85 a square foot costing was for a full build, but didn't include site clearance or taking away of rubble on site and was effectively a direct labour contract with a project manager in place.

It was quite an unusual way to cost a project, based on an pre-selected contractor with no alternatives and I cannot recommend it for general layperson's use.

I only looked that this method after a lot of consideration and vetting of the prospective builder, plus a lot of reading here and on boards.ie about the potential costing for direct labour work.

You also need to have a client willing to shoulder the responsibility of the contractor, for that is what you become when you employ direct labour.

See the self-build FAQ on this forum at the top of the page for more background information.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.