House freezing - how can I make best use of gas central heating system?

davidoco said:

Get yourself a table mounted thermostat so that you get an idea how warm your house is, between 19 and 21 does most people but there are complete energy wasters out there with the house at 24 and 25.

You should be able to keep the heating on with the thermostat at say 20 for the day without running up huge bills.

You may also wish to consider some of the draft proofing and attic insulation threads if your heating needs to come on at 4am for a 7 am start.

Also remember that this is a very cold snap and every householder has to adjust their heating to take account of that as in general we get mild even winters - of course those of us with programmable room stats with optimum start get the real benefits.

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Hi again everyone,

Seems like I'm not the only one with a cold house! I did as advised and had the heating on from 8am this morning with the thermostat at 20 degrees and there definitely is an improvement without a doubt so as long as the bill isn't astronomical then this will be the way to go for us!

I have a room thermometer in my little girl's room and what shocked me this morning (after 3 hours of heating) was that it read 14.5 degrees!

sydthebeat said:

annie, there should be another thermostat somewhere for the hot water.. im not a plumber so i dont know the standard, but my gas boiler at home has a thermostat at the boiler that spans between 40-80 (i think).. this is for hot water alone. I have no room thermostats, but i do have TRVs in the kitch and living room (these are controllable valves on the rads that allow 4 settings, off, low medium and high temp.)

Is there a thermostat on your hot water cylinder?

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I don't have a thermostat on the hot water cylinder no.

dub_nerd said:

Not having a separate pump/switch for your water is a real pain. Still, setting a room thermostat at 30C sounds excessive. Get an accurate thermometer so that you know when the thermostat needs to be turned up to keep the heating running for your water. Basically, use the thermostat as a switch when you need water. You do NOT need heating on from 4am-7am to heat water ... depends on size of hot water tank and wattage of boiler, but I doubt more than half an hour is required. If you are also turning on for space heating, 30C is too high. The rate of energy loss through your windows and walls is proportional to the difference between inside and outside temperature. Periods of high temperature interspersed with no heating are less efficient than maintaining a constant temp.

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Dubnerd, there's no way a half hour would heat the water enough for two showers. Even if I need to have a shower during the day or wash my hair I need to put the water on for at least 2 hours. Of course this is during the weather we have a moment which is doing nothing to help!

huskerdu said:

The fact that you aee heating the whole hpuse from 4am to 7am when you are all in bed in order to have a hot shower is an complete waste of money.

does it really take 3 hours to heat the tank ?
I assume you have a well lagged tank. If not, solve this immediately.

Have you considered getting an immersion heater installed.
If the central heating is not heating the water hot enough, it only takes about 15 minutes for the immersion to finish the job. This would be much more cost effective.

Then you could turn the termostat down to a reasonable 21 and leave it on for longer and when you are in the house.

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Huskerdu,
I completely agree that we are essentially wasting both money and energy by having the water on for three hours in the morning but unfortunately our water tank is linked to our heating and there's no other way around this as our situation is at the moment. In the summer we simply switch off the heaters and the water heats up when the boiler comes on which is so handy and cheaper!! Our tank is very well lagged as we got it done when we first moved in about 3 years ago.

How much would an immersion heater cost to buy and have installed does anyone know? We don't have the money for it at the moment but it could be something we could do in the future as I'm very conscious of the energy wastage.

Thanks again to everyone for replying, it's very reassuring to know I'm not just a freak who's cold all the time!

Jane Doe said:

costv 6 euro? Could you recommend a good one? Thanks

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Just try googling - there are hundreds out there.

Accuracy should be stated - something with around +/- 0.5C tolerance should cost from €50 - €80. Something with +/- 1C (which might be adequate) you could probably get for about €20.

Caveat said:

there are hundreds out there.

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i know but what is reasonable spec is what i did not know

Accuracy should be stated - something with around +/- 0.5C tolerance should cost from €50 - €80. Something with +/- 1C (which might be adequate) you could probably get for about €20.

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that is good thanks

AnnieC said:

I did as advised and had the heating on from 8am this morning with the thermostat at 20 degrees

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do you mean the thermostat on the boiler?

Jane Doe said:

do you mean the thermostat on the boiler?

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Hi JaneDoe,
No, the thermostat in the hallway downstairs.

Hi AnnieC

AnnieC said:

Hi JaneDoe,
No, the thermostat in the hallway downstairs.

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oh i see i do not have a stat in the hall. Does that mean the boiler is on all the time or the stat turns on boiler when needed to keep the heat constant

Thanks

As far as I can tell (I really should check this out!) once the boiler reaches the temp on the thermostat it clicks off until it drops below 20 degrees and then comes on again but I'm not 100%. Sounds like it's clicking on and off though if you get me?

Sorry I'm not being very clear, I need a degree in plumberage!!

AnnieC said:

As far as I can tell (I really should check this out!) once the boiler reaches the temp on the thermostat it clicks off until it drops below 20 degrees and then comes on again but I'm not 100%.

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Thanks AnnieC that is what I mean. That is what i want .

Maybe I should start a new thread? Mod move if need.

I want someone to fit a thermostat in my house to keep the heat constant. I have a thermostat on the boiler but not on the wall. I presume the one on the boiler is called a thermostat

The rads can be turned up or down manually.

What i want is a stat that i can program to keep the house at a pre determined temp OK? So it will turn on the boiler heat as needed to top up and then turn off. My electric cooker does this. How much would it cost? is it electrician or plumber or both?Is there any company i could call

I apologise if I have not given enough detail. I have not a clue.Please ask if more needed

AnnieC said:

as long as the bill isn't astronomical then this will be the way to go for us!

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If you know where your meter is take a reading tonight off ALL the numbers before you go to bed. Take another reading just before 9 in the morning, and if you are there all day take another reading at 5, then again at the end of the night. Do this for a couple of days, including the weekend and post the results and I'll describe how to interpret them.

AnnieC said:

I have a room thermometer in my little girl's room and what shocked me this morning (after 3 hours of heating) was that it read 14.5 degrees!

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Is she in what you might call the box room with two outside walls and a large window. These rooms which are usually over a hallway do suffer the most and they get very little gain during the evening from a room underneath. But 14.5 this morning after 3 hours really is not on, you might consider getting a small oil filled radiator which you can set at a very low setting to keep that room at least up around 17 or 18 during the night.

you might consider getting a small oil filled radiator

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Annie C there is one in Lidl next monday

davidoco said:

If you know where your meter is take a reading tonight off ALL the numbers before you go to bed. Take another reading just before 9 in the morning, and if you are there all day take another reading at 5, then again at the end of the night. Do this for a couple of days, including the weekend and post the results and I'll describe how to interpret them.

Is she in what you might call the box room with two outside walls and a large window. These rooms which are usually over a hallway do suffer the most and they get very little gain during the evening from a room underneath. But 14.5 this morning after 3 hours really is not on, you might consider getting a small oil filled radiator which you can set at a very low setting to keep that room at least up around 17 or 18 during the night.

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Hiya David,

I'm working tomorrow and Friday but will be off all weekend so I will take meter readings as you suggest and if you're sure you don't mind I will post the readings here. It might be next week sometime before I get to post them if that's ok.

She's in the front bedroom. It is quite a large room with big windows but isn't over the hallway but you make a lot of sense in what you say regarding heat loss. I'll look into getting a heater although I would be nervous leaving it on all night.

Jane Doe said:

Annie C there is one in Lidl next monday

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I know where I'll be headed on Monday so! Thanks for the heads up Jane!

I know it's basic things but
1. You need to get rid of draughts.
2. Have you checked that your radiators heat fully if they don't heat all the way to the top you need to bleed them. Pretty easy job and all it requires is a bleeding key available in any hardware shop, or depending on type of radiator sometimes a flat head screwdriver will do the trick .
It's possible that although your heating is running your not getting the most out of it if this is the case.
3. Has your boiler been serviced annually if not I would recommend getting this done as it will improve efficiency and safety of the system not to mention the risk of being left cold when you need it most.

As regards the settings of thermostats which there seems to be confusion and conflicting settings.
1. The boiler should be set around 65-75 deg (mine is set at 70 deg) this setting will dictate the amount of time the rooms/hot water cylinder take to come up to temperature.
2. The room/wall thermostat should be set at 20-21 deg this will cut off the boiler when the rooms come up to temperature. (this setting will be individual to your house depending on where it is fitted hall/living room, close to a door/window, and height also plays a part in this)
I changed my controls last year and can feel a real difference. Instead of the normal time clock I fitted a time control thermostat this is set to 20 degrees for day time and 18 for night and can also be easily over ridden if required.
As it takes more energy to heat from colder by not letting your house cool down you could in fact be more efficient. Look at it like pushing a full wheelbarrow or shopping trolley hard to get started but once your moving it drifts along.
Depending on occupancy habits of course these will be individual to your lifestyle. With controllable thermostats you have a few time settings to set as you require depending on needs.
These are available in almost every DIY store, electrical or plumbing suppliers even e-bay but a bit pricey at €70 to €100 simple to fit (but as always make sure power removed before starting any work) they replace any thermostat with no extra wiring required and are even available as wireless (bit more expensive though) for those hard to get at places or where no thermostat has ever been fitted and you don't want surface wiring.

For those people without a thermostat on their hot water cylinder (especially AnnieC) consider the following.

This is for people who feel that it takes forever to heat a cylinder of hot water and have no thermostat on the cylinder or seperate control at a clock for hot water.

Your boiler sends water out through one pipe. Water in that pipe gets *diverted in two near the cylinder with one going to the radiators and one going through the hot water cylinder. They both join up again after being through the cylinder and radiators respectively and go back to the boiler. This is the heating/hot water circuit - one big loop.

The speed of flow of the water in this circuit needs to be balanced because if there is less resistance on either side after the diversion (at the cylinder) you will find cold rads and plenty of hot water or hot rads and no or little hot water. This what I think is happening in your case, all the hot water in the circuit is going to your rads, hence having to turn up the thermostat to keep the water flowing so eventually you get heat in your cylinder.

If you have no experience of plumbing get someone out to look at that issue or if your up for it and want to start turning knobs and valves post a picture of your cylinder (there are hosting sites out there to which you can link a photo)

Hi

Got a smoke pen and found draughts under the window boards - is standard off the shelf caulk OK or is there a particular one I should use ?

- pm

off the shelf is fine...

did you check all the junctions of ceilings and walls... and floors and walls???
usually around openings at where pipes enter the walls are the worst points...

Thanks

Only checked a few spots so far - where waste pipe in en-suite exits there is also a draught. Too big of a hole for caulk - is expanding foam OK to close it up ?

Did notice one small black dot in corner of bedroom - did not think it was even a hole but when I checked could not believe the draught.

Also aorund the vents added to window after installation.

- pm

expanding foam is actually air permeable... it will reduce the draught but it wont fix it. If the hole is too big for a caulk gun, try using fillers.. .these can be gotten in any merchants....

Hi Picassoman, can you let us know where you bought your smoke pen please?

I have tried a few diy and builders providers for something like which you appear to have got your hands on, which will show me where the drafts are in my house but to no avail so far.

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