Hospital Co-Location Scheme

[Sunny]

Can someone explain to me why this scheme seems to be so divisive between all the parties? I have tried reading up on it to see why it could be a deal breaker for parties trying to enter government with FF but I can't really find anything. I admit that the scheme has its flaws but is it really such a bad idea?

 

[Purple]

It’s the principle of it. It doesn’t matter if it’s a good idea or not…

 

[nelly]

Yes i agree that its the principle, the more i think of it the more I feel i could be socialist at heart as i don't agree with it. I'm more berlin than Boston, however i have private insurance to queue jump if needed and think if privatised certain aspects of the service would be better, for example hospital cleanliness. I doubt its a deal breaker though.

 

[Amygdala]

As far as I am aware cleaning and canteen staff are run by private firms with contracts with the owners (mostly religious orders). Also a recent study in St. Vincent’s hospital has shown that private beds are slightly more expensive than public beds. Couple this with refusal of the private hospitals to participate in medical education, as it slows down their throughput of the cherry picked cases.

 

[nelly]

private hospitals are mostly spotless, public hospitals less so (have visited a few in the past). Yes there are contracts but the supervision is required by the nurses and folks running the hospitals. That has been my experience anyhow. Also the clients that attend private hospitals are sometimes more lets say better behaved than their public counterparts - i'm specifically thinking maternity hospitals here (and then i think of Sinead O'C having the fag outside the Rotunda on her last...) You don't hear of folks bringin in cans to celebrate to lets say Mt Carmel.

 

[Guest127]

I was told that contract staff who clean hospitals etc have no pride in their work chiefly because they are 'rotated' around ie Monday this week hospital xxx, Monday next week office yyy, Monday week after factory zzz etc etc. if this is true then maybe hospitals drawing up cleaning contracts should try and ensure a continuity of staff so that anyone clearly not doing the job properly could be sorted out. might or might not be the cause/remedy but I personally would dread being admitted to hospital at present. and partly because of the hygiene.

 

[Purple]

Mrs Purple worked in St James's hospital in Dublin for a while and one of the mini businesses that were run from the hospital was in selling cleaning products. She even brought home a price list once. This may be the reason that the cleaners are rotated.

 

[ajapale]

.....Can someone explain to me why this scheme seems to be so divisive between all the parties? ....

Can anyone answer sunnys question? I too am interested to know more about the scheme.

 

[Purple]

From the HSE [broken link removed].
For another perspective, Sinn Fein [broken link removed].

 

[ang1170]

Yes i agree that its the principle, the more i think of it the more I feel i could be socialist at heart as i don't agree with it. I'm more berlin than Boston, however i have private insurance to queue jump if needed and think if privatised certain aspects of the service would be better, for example hospital cleanliness. I doubt its a deal breaker though.

I can't recall exactly where, but I read of a report on the NHS in the UK, where it was clear that contracting out services like cleaning to private contractors had led to a decline in standards.

To my mind, ownership should be irrelevant: it's all down to good/bad management. Having said that, all things being equal, I think hospitals are better off in public ownership, unless someone can explain to me why (for example) the US health care system is better than that in France or Germany.

Anyone else see the program on Gerry Robinson trying to run a hospital recently? See [broken link removed] It was very interesting, and seemed very applicable to here as well.

 

[nelly]

I would like to see a repeat of the prime time show comparing Boston and Berlin type hospitals - the doctors in Boston were almost screaming don't follow us as its not working for everyone and the German situation seemed obviously the best way, about 5-10% in Berlin still went private but the care was the same just posher menu.
Anyone else see it?

 

[Amygdala]

The government states that the sole purpose of co-location is to free up public beds even though many wards have been closed down since the 1980s . My feeling is this will lead to a proliferation of private hospitals which will decimate patient care in the near future since there will be no training opportunities for Doctors in these private companies and they will contribute absolutely nothing to research. A short sighted strategy the long term consequences.

From Finfacts

Public spending on health is one of the lowest of any developed country, in spite of massive increases in health expenditure since the late 1990s.

Total Irish spending on health was 7.1 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) in Ireland in 2004, below the 8.9 per cent average across developed countries.

Only Mexico, Poland, the Slovak Republic and South Korea ranked lower than Ireland in the survey of 30 countries.

The number of acute care hospital beds in Ireland is also well below average. In 2004, Ireland had 2.9 acute beds per 1,000 population, below the OECD average of 4.1 beds per 1,000 population.
The expenditure on health as a percentage of GDP has not changed sine 1992.

I also believe that all vested interest groups need to be tackled and hospitals should be run on a 24hr/7 day week if further investment is to be justified.

P.s I have been in two hospitals in France, the maternity and medical wards I visited each room had only one or two beds and every room was ensuite. Both off these hospitals where regional hospitals.

 

[Sherman]

P.s I have been in two hospitals in France, the maternity and medical wards I visited each room had only one or two beds and every room was ensuite. Both off these hospitals where regional hospitals.

Yes but I'll bet one of the reasons the French system works better is that they at least know exactly how many people are employed in their health service.

Nearly fell off my chair when the HSE admitted it didn't know how many people it employed.

It all comes down to management. We spend plenty on health here, but it gets wasted left, right and centre.

P.S. am I wrong in thinking that we already have an Irish form of co-location, given that consultants will often see private patients in public hospitals?!

 

[Protocol]

I think it's bad that a consultant gets paid twice if the patient uses insurance in a public hospital.

And you the patient never even see or speak to the consultant!!

He/she is paid a wage by the state, plus they charge a fee to your insusrer, but they don't actually do the treatment.

What a racket!!

 

[Amygdala]

P.S. am I wrong in thinking that we already have an Irish form of co-location, given that consultants will often see private patients in public hospitals?!

Not only that practice that you mention but there are many hospital campuses which have both private and public hospitals i.e. Mater misericordiae and St. Vincents to name but a few.
I believe these where originally set up by religious orders and run so that private hospitals could fund the public but these private hospitals have been sold in recent years as they are extremely lucrative enterprises.