Help! Best Location To Invest Abroad Today

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Carrie2006

Registered User
Messages
16
Hi,
After doing a lot of research today I am starting to doubt my original idea that a property in the Canaries would be a good idea. Seemingly the market is completely saturated with apartments and I cannot afford a villa!

Anyhow, I have some money to spare. I think we may have entered a stop and wait period in Ireland as many spectators are commentating that the housing market may slow or worse case scenario witness a hard landing. Hence I don't want to invest in Irish property for now, knowing my luck I'd buy and the whole thing would go belly up!

Could anyone please advise on where is the best place to invest abroad is, both in terms of yield and capital appreciation potential? I was thinking of Nice as well.
I really appreciate your advice.
C
 
You're going to get as many different answers to this on as there are stars in the sky I'm afraid.

I'll say Romania, Almo will say Croatia, Macedonia and Montenegro. Auto320 will say the UK, Isle of Man and others will say elsewhere, e.g .Turkey, Poland, Germany et al. We all have our differing opinions based on our experiences to date. No one has an exacting answer to offer you. It will always depend on why you want to invest. What returns you accept and how risk-adverse you are, not to mention your bravery in what, in many instances, are emerging markets.

You need to draw yourself up a short list and then come back and see if you can't find someone on the site who has experience in those markets. Whether you do or don't find someone then you MUST, MUST, MUST visit the place and take alot of time over what will be a major decision!

Good luck with it.
 
Actually no, I wouldn't say Croatia is the best place to invest, despite the advantages, and with the vagueness of the request it's hard to see if the person wishes for rents or just a place to show off with, which, if it's the case, then somewhere like the Greek Islands are so so good, and are pretty decently accessible.

The best place to invest is one where you've been, enjoyed, made friends locally and will return to retire in one day. Take nothing anyone says on face value until you have read, seen and visited the place, and not only the resort parts, but see the poor side of the tracks (even from a distance) and then you'll know what your renters or prospective buyers will see.
 
A close friend of mine (an Eygptian but living in the UK for 40 years) reckons Cairo and the Eygptian resorts are the next boom areas; they certainly seem extremely cheap but I don't know about rentability, political stability, etc, etc. Research, research, research!

Sarah

www.rea.ie
 
AFAIK, the Egyptians have taken note of the consequences of the Israeli acquisition of Palestinian land and the government have insisted that all property sold to non-nationals is leasehold.

"According to the Prime Minister declaration Number 548 dated April 2005 there is no property ownership for foreigners (FREE HOLD) it is a 99 years lease hold."
 

A lot of stuff built in cairo is illegal and has no planning permission whatsoever. There is a caper that goes on there where landlords keep adding extra stories on to existing buildings as demand arises, and collapses of entire buildings are not uncommon. I had a look at Cairo once with a view to seeing if there were opportunities there, and once was enough for me!

As with anywhere, an investor going into a market like Egypt would want not only to know the ground very well, but would need to be local and understand the nuances of a market like that. An investor from this side of the world is much better sticking to markets that are regulated and that have laws that protect foreign buyers.

As for the best places to invest, how long is a piece of string? A better way to approach it might be to eliminate definite no-go areas if you are anxious not to lose money; I would suggest that the following should be on your "definite no-no" list:

1. Bulgaria, particularly the Balck Sea Coast and the Ski areas.

2. Turkey, almost everywhere if you are new to this, but particularly the coastal developments.

3. Dubai, all of it, unless you have enough to buy a good hotel.

4. French Leasebacks, with a few honourable exceptions.

5. Italian property, unless you have an intimate relationship with an Italian lawyer and can speak fluent Italian.

6. Anything in the former East Germany, and including most of Berlin. If you want to buy in Germany, look at Frankfort.

7. New off-plan property on the Costa del Sol (you can save serious amounts by buying existing built stock, although prices of that are hardening of late).

8. Anything in or close to a sink estate in the UK; areas like Mossside in Manchester are presently getting some nice looking buildings as neighbours with the dearth of good brownfield sites, but keep away!

9. Morocco, unless it is an awful lot cheaper than a certain well known Spanish developer is selling it for. I see that they have recently opened an office here too!

That's about the worst of it. the Canaries not great for investment in general, but some specific bits are good. The rental thing is mostly a myth there unless you own a travel agency and can fill it yourself.

A previous poster is right, I wouldn't overlook the UK, it has been very good to me in the past and the supply/demand curve still favours the investor. If you have less money though, Budapest is still good, and rent returns are not bad (I'm getting over 5% on recently bought stuff and over 10% on ones that I bought a few years ago, and I will dip my toes in the water again there in the Spring when I have a few spare bob). Romania, as a previous poster noted, is still one of the best, but avoid Bucharest and its crazy market, stick with Constanta or Cluj or one of the better snall cities. Good land deals along the coast still, albeit you have to open a company and all that, but those kinds of hassles keep the hordes away and leave the field clear for careful pickers.

And finally, if you want a holiday home with a bit of investment potential, go to Spain. You can be there in 2 hours any time and you can actually get the use from it. Rentals are difficult in any holiday market, unless you are sure that you can get them yourself (the salesman who sold to you won't get them for you, that's for sure). Buy well in Spain though and you will have an appreciating asset that wil give you lots of pleasure for years to come.

I hope that that was of help!
 

Why is it going to be the next big thing?

I wouldn't touch Egypt with a barge pole. It's corrupt, impoverished and unless you're happy to stay in compounds/Hotels drinking pina coladas all day, it's not particularly safe for Westeners. Wasn't there tourists killed there earlier this year?
 
Don'y overlook one of the worlds largest economies, I purchased in Chicago this year and had a genuine rental g/tee, state taxes and assessments paid period built in, I tried to deal direct and could not get a better deal that I received through a Dublin based company .

My strategy is to hold for a 4/5 year period and then flip it on, choose wisely though and ensure all due dilegence is done by yourself or the agent, alo plenty of Irish in the larger US cities to check out the area, developer and renatl markey, Chicago by the way has been doing 10% year on year , I would avoid Florida and the smaller centres of population
 
Amazed that no one has suggested the states, one of the larger cities , look for rental guarantees that are genuine, get the state taxes and assessments included and you are off , I have dipped my toes and found the experience great, plenty of providers, do your homework, my strategy is simple I want a 4 to 5 year window and then flip it on, borrow in US dollars to hedge the currency exposure and stick to large urban areas, Chicago has 3 million people living in Cook county in the centre of it and about 10 million in the wider chicago area...New York second choice and avoid Florida and smaller urban areas
 

For a start, although I have made a nice living from the property business, it is of course very wrong to make a blanket statement to the effect that you can always rely on property to increase in price. Ok, the poster is plugging a development and throwing out a sales pitch, exactly the kind of thing that I and other posters warn about. Never believe all that a salesman or saleswoman tells you, and be very careful of an agent that makes a statement like this.

I my lifetime I have made money in both rising and falling markets, and I am very conscious that for every winner there has in some way to be a loser -- either the person who sold too early and too cheap, or the person who paid too much. A comment like this, from a salesman who comes on to this forum to plug his product, would certainly make me walk the other way.

Anyone who has read my posts will know that I am a fan of Spain. I keep a nice home there and spend a lot of time there. I have made a reasonable amount of money on careful investments in several areas in Spain; most recently I sold my previous home on the Costa del Sol and made half a million euro on a modest enough house that I had owned for less than six years. By and large in Spain at the moment however the best value is to be had in secondhand property. New projects run about 100k ahead of the market (the real market, when you get in there and make an offer) for a typical 2-bed apartment, the bread and butter of the coastal market. I know that loads of peolpe will put their hands up and tell us of exceptions, but believe me, this is the real position.

So, if you are going to Spain, and I really do recommend the place, beware of "greeks bearing gifts" and buy yourself a better deal. No matter what a developer promises you about rentals, remember that his interest is in getting the sale and the commssion on the sale, not on 10% of a nuisance rental to occasional holidaymakers.

You are much better off buying at the lowest possible price and forgetting about rentals, except for the few you get yourself. Then when you come to sell, you can pocket a reasonable gain. In the meantime, you will have had the enjoyment of a holiday home in the best climate in Europe.
 
IF a 2 bed apartment in a new build in the costa del sol is on sale for 250k for the sake of example,a similiar 2 bed 2nd hand apartment would be about 150k . according to auto.
Sorry auto, i love doing the "numbers".Do these numbers look realistic.
Also out of interest, the houses in the alpujarras...how far away is the airports.... and do these houses come with a few acres .... and is it very hilly and very dry for gardens etc.
I PRESUME these houses were owned by spanish and have no pools or not too many luxuries.
I NOTICE that this is quite a big area ,over 50 miles long and possibly too isolated for me but worth visiting.
 

Typical new-build aound the Costa del Sol (I'm talking about Western Marbella and other good areas) is in excess of 300k for a 2-bed apt in a nice development. Similar stuff is on offer second hand from about 230k upwards, but can usually be bought for less. In addition, very few owners will take the furniture away, and it can often be bought for a very nominal fee, or got for nothing where owners live abroad and can't be bothered doing anything about it. It takes a bit of "mooching", but you can easily save 100k on a 2-bed apartment without too much effort.

The Alpujarras was an area that I had ignored for years, although I knew an agent who was always waxing lyrical about the area. It was only after I had spent a weekend at a friend's house there that I began to see the potential of the place. A lot of full-time expats live there, not too many, but still quite a few. The area is called "Green Spain", because it is irrigated year-round by the irrigation system that was put in place by the Moors, using snow-melt and rainwater from high up in the Sierra Nevada mountains, directed through a series of water channels that run everywhere. The sound of running water is everywhere, as it trickles through the channels. Most houses in the countryside have a fair bit of land with them; the ones in the towns just typically have a terrace, often on the roof.

While some of the houses are basic enough, many have been renovated by Spanish or expat owners (a lot of owners are descendants of people who emigrated from the area to the big cities) to a high standard. Pools are common enough, as are nice grounds and gardens. By and large, a lot of the houses are in walk-in cndition, but of course you can buy a fixer-upper if that floats your boat.

Ayway, I bought a house there a couple of years ago just to try it out, but kept my pad in Marbella in case I didn't like it long term. Finally I made the move altogether this year, and sold off the Marbella house. I now find that the Alpujarras is my favourite part of Spain, and its easy to get to. However it wouldn't be for everyone; if you like golf and irish bars and all that scene, forget it and stick to the coast.
 
Over 200k for a 2bed apartment on the costas is still a lot of money, especially as one cannot rely on much rental yield.
What constitutes a nice development..is it near the coast,amenities,built quality or more importantly what does not constitute a nice development.
West marbella.....is this the coastline all the way west of marbella or in the immediate area of marbella itself.
What would 200k buy one in budapest for example, and one would get a nice rental yield and surely greater capital appreciation than on the costas.
I`M thinking to buy a holiday property in the costas one would want to spend at least a few months there every year, as well as having the money.Even in marbella , one could possibly go 10 or 20 miles inland and get cheaper still...than a bargain 2 bed apt resale on the coast....not sure if it would be boring.
A LOT boils down to money or the availability of it.Do irish banks easily lend to irish people buying holiday homes abroad?
On a visit to the puerto de la cruz area of tenerife, i must say that it would be a lovely area to live.
Is there a likelihood that holiday homes are way over valued ....surely it mustn`t cost too much to build 2 bed apts on the costas that sell for 300k.
o.k. one could get them on a resale for 200k +,but if there is a recession in ireland,u.k. etc surely the prices will fall further.
 
Carrie2006 said:
Could anyone please advise on where is the best place to invest abroad is, both in terms of yield and capital appreciation potential? I was thinking of Nice as well.
Click to expand...


The 'tramway de Nice' will be finished in September this year (add on 2/3 months for inevitable delays). Rental market is very strong. I was on Aer Lingus direct from Dublin yesterday. Only 2 hours.

Nice is one to watch in 2007.
 

do you need to go go to a certain location to "invest".. can you not transfer money into a deposit account over the phone. Or you could try paddy poweres, think they take internet and phone investments
 
This thread has been locked while its contents are considered by the moderators.

aj
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Menu
Log in
Register