Health Service Inefficiency

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time to plan said:
How do you think the intrletnational community and particularly the EU would react to Ireland exiling trade union leaders? Would they be trade union apologists?
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I’ll take that as rhetorical.

The EU is the epitome of a union-infested entity: inefficient, corrupt, bureaucratic and bankrupt.
 
time to plan said:
Whereas countries that exile trade unionists are generally great places to live?
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Are they? I wouldn’t know as that’d be utopian.

And only exile the public sector unions as there is an argument for some union input in the private sector
 
time to plan said:
That is a straw man - not a reasonable inference from my post.

Persecuting trade unionists is however a modus operandi of tyrannies. As is enforced exile.
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An unequivocal inference-you were equating the union stranglehold with liberty.

Anyway, enough inanity for one day
 
When the guards threatened illegal strike action to gain additional payments for a job that is already very well compensated?
 
The ultimte
ATC110 said:
An unequivocal inference-you were equating the union stranglehold with liberty.

Anyway, enough inanity for one day
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The ultimate inanity in this thread is to suggest that there is the remotest chance that Unions and in particular Unions representing Public Sector workers be “ exiled “ .
It ain’t going to happen , indeed with the current polls reflecting an even greater swing to left leaning parties ( even more left leaning than FF and FG ) we may see the introduction of more Union friendly legislation.
 

Indeed-we're going to hell in a handcart.

"Union-friendly legislation"... can't imagine what that means-they're already holding the public writ large to ransom
 
gianni said:
When the guards threatened illegal strike action to gain additional payments for a job that is already very well compensated?
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Significantly overcompensated for a job with minimal entry requirements and a 30 year superannuation scheme, to which they contribute a small proportion of the cost.
 
ATC110 said:
Indeed-we're going to hell in a handcart.

"Union-friendly legislation"... can't imagine what that means-they're already holding the public writ large to ransom
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ATC110 said:
Indeed-we're going to hell in a handcart.

"Union-friendly legislation"... can't imagine what that means-they're already holding the public writ large to ransom
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At least we can agree on the fact that the thought of Unions being " exiled " is fanciful in the extreme .
Leo Varadkar has established a high level group to review industrial relations in Ireland which could ( I stress the word " could " ) compel all employers to talk to Unions , this review group will also consider whether Ireland is out of line with the EU position on Union recognition.
Whilst I wouldn't be too hopeful of progress under the current Government I do wonder what would happen under a majority SF Government?
 
The only reason that the question can't be answered is that there's no reality behind - no facts or evidence behind your MRI claim. If unions blocked MRIs, then please give details of this. If you don't have anything beyond vague anecdote, it's not really very convincing.
Why could PS only mean public sector in a thread that frequently refers to both public and private sector and makes comparisons between both?
Statutory entitlements are the same for public and private sector employees. Contractual entitlements are different for different employers.
What's important here today is that we base future discussions on facts, not anecdotes.
No-one books sick leave. But have you reported these fraudulent employees at all?
ATC110 said:
Indeed-we're going to hell in a handcart.

"Union-friendly legislation"... can't imagine what that means-they're already holding the public writ large to ransom
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If unions were holding the public to ransom, how current new public servants have a dramatically reduced pension scheme to pre-2013 entrants?
ATC110 said:
Significantly overcompensated for a job with minimal entry requirements and a 30 year superannuation scheme, to which they contribute a small proportion of the cost.
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Funny how it wasn't so attractive that you went rushing in to avail of all these amazing benefits yourself though.
 
RetirementPlan said:
There's inefficiencies in all organisations, public and private, large and small, unionised and not.

If you're going to make allegations about people having blood on their hands, it would be half-decent to have some specifics to back those up.
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This is a discussion forum, not a court of law. I’m certainly not going to name people here without their consent so I can’t give specific examples.

I find it funny that those who spent their working lives in the Protected Sector, never open to competition, never having to worry about losing their jobs, are so defensive and so absolute in their belief that organisations which are not subject to the same market forces as organisations in the real economy are somehow just as efficient and lean, despite not being exposed to the very evolutionary forces that make their counterparts in the real economy try to be lean and efficient.
The self interest of wanting to have a job next week and next month trumps the self interest of doing as little as possible in the real economy. What replaces that in the Protected Sector?

The only thing impressive so far in your posts on this topic is the level of wilful self delusion on display.
Are you seriously suggesting that in organisations which have no risk of closure the presence of vested interest groups whose sole function is to get as much money for the least amount of work for their members will have no detrimental impact on the efficiency or quality of the products or services that organisation delivers?

Are you serious?

Do you know the level of collective arrogance that is required for a group of people to think that they are all altruistic enough and of sufficient moral fibre to be above the same human frailties as the rest of us?
 
Purple said:- "The only thing impressive so far in your posts on this topic is the level of wilful self delusion on display.
Are you seriously suggesting that in organisations which have no risk of closure the presence of vested interest groups whose sole function is to get as much money for the least amount of work for their members will have no detrimental impact on the efficiency or quality of the products or services that organisation delivers?"

Usually, Purple I admire the construction and wit of most of your posts, but the above paragraph and your previous post has a few things wrong.
(i) There is no level of wilful self delusion on display. You said it yourself, this is a forum and not a court of law. Long may people have their opinions and feel free to express them. But, if you have aspirations to mirror some North Korean leader then drive on.

(ii) Government departments are not going to close and I've never met somebody who wants them to. Just imagine our republic without Revenue Commissioners and Dept of Social Protection. Those employed in all government organisations have a duty to the public and most deliver on it. There are chaff and wheat in every organisation (even in yours).

(iii) No competition for Government Departments - Do you want another Revenue Commissioners set up to compete with the existing one? Our Revenue Commissioners may not have all the best practices, but mainly they do the best available.

(iv) Newsflash! Purple - Unions are not there to get the most for their members and have them do the least. That is the bar room spoof of somebody who is blatantly guessing and spewing out something after twenty four pints of flat cheap lager.

(v) But, keep it up. Like I have often said much of your posts recruit many people to the trade union movement. You appear to want trade unions just to die. Don't worry unions are losing members and the recruitment of new members is getting more difficult (probably their biggest threat).

(vi) Let's say Trade Unionism dies in Ireland and no representation exists for management or staff. How long do you think it will be before genuine chaos erupts?

(vii) I can honestly say having spent most of my working life in the Civil/Public Service and having spent most of that time as a low level trade union representative conditions improved for my colleagues and work practices and output improved for the employer. (Remember what I already said about win/win). Everybody who asked me to represent them I would have ensured had a genuine case for representation. I flew no kites and suffered no fools in either management or staff. But, I am not crass enough to say that I haven't seen kites flown or fools flowing in management and staff.
 
However there is no process to blow away the chaff in the public sector.
 
cremeegg said:
However there is no process to blow away the chaff in the public sector.
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Again, your information seems to be about 20-30 years out of date. Though I'm not quite sure why 'blowing away the chaff' is a proud boast for an employer. It seems to suggest that you need to improve your recruitment and management processes if you find yourself 'blowing away the chaff' all the time.
 
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