Have we created a society where not working is encouraged?

VOR said:
Minimum wage is €8.65. Say you work 35 hours. You get €302.75.
JSA is €204.30 per week.

Less than €100 for a weeks work.
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That 100 euro would make a big difference if you were on 200 euro a week though.

I'm not sold on the benefits of working though, I'd prefer to be independently wealthy and not have to work.
 
When I was made redundant after 12 years of full employment, the first shock was my JSB was only for 15 month, the 2nd shock was that I had to take letters and emails in the Social Welfare Office and prove that I was looking for work, the 3rd shock was when I went self employed and looking for work (just the odd job) They tried to stop my benefit. So how can people be on long term benefits?
 
corkgal said:
That 100 euro would make a big difference if you were on 200 euro a week though.
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And that €100 has to pay for work clothes, travel incl possible parking, childcare costs and other misc items.
 
 
Everytime I see queues of hundreds of people on the news outside McDonalds or Argos for Xmas jobs, I know its safe to assume that these are people who are used to working and are desperate just to get some work again cos they don't like unemployment.

You can bet your mortgage they aren't the long-term unemployed, as a lot of these are more than happy to sit on their holes all day and lift benefits.
 
Eddie Hobbs - Show Me The Money - showcased a couple from Bray in 2006, where himself had lost/left his job and they were on befefits and Eddie was helping them to sort themselves financially, they had a lot of debt.

From what I remember, the guy said he didn't want to take a particular job as he was better off on benefits.
 
If a person is unemployed and meets the criteria for eligilibity they are either receiving Jobseekers Allowance or Benefit. I have yet to see anywhere is Social Welfare legislation that makes reference to the "dole".

"Relief" is not the dole or jobseekers - that type of reference originates in the Poor Law System of 1838 from which supplementary welfare originated in the 1970's.
 
truthseeker said:
I also personally know someone who turned down the offer of work because 'Ill lose my benefits'.
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And that is where the problem lies, however about giving up work to go on the dole, it's about giving up the dole to go to work. I can't blame anyone for not taking a job if it means they lose RA, medical card etc. This problem needs to be resloved if we are to get anywhere.
 
I think the bottom line is that there should never be a case when it doesn't pay you to work, simple as that.

I appreciate that this might be hard to put into practice now, but surely that is the fundamental thing that all Gov's should be looking at?

Even if it means still getting a level of benefits if you take on a low paid job, you should still be getting more money into the house than someone who couldn't be bothered to get off their This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language and work.

I think the rules are wrong if anyone in this country can say "I'd lose money if I took that job".

Or how about putting the long term unemployed to work on voluntary jobs such as charity work or even cleaning up streets, grafitti etc. That would soon put an end to the lazy attitude many people have.
 
I know this is an old thread but given my recent experience I do have to wonder was it worth it my working for a couple of weeks up to Christmas.

I managed to get some temporary work at a well know supermarket. First week was 23 hours, second week 38 hours, Slightly above minimum wage. Week one I came out with 123.00, week 2 I estimate I will get around 228.00, thanks to the employer not bothering to put my tax credits in, even though I gave them my P45. The payslip I got does not have my PPS number on and my name is incorrect. They also made an unauthorised deduction for a trade union subscription ( I am not particularly anti union but it was not worth me paying a fee for 10 days work, and I was not asked or informed about union membership) I know I should be able to get the tax back but the point is over the 2 weeks I earned less than I could have got on the dole, plus had to pay for lunch ( nowhere to store a packed lunch). A few people simply walked off the job when they opened their payslip last week, it's not something I would do but I could understand why they did it.

I went for an interview, at the interview I was informed if I got the job I would have to work 17.5 hours over a 5 day week, taking into account travelling costs (it's at least 25 minute drive) again I would come out with significanly less than the dole. Personally speaking I probably would take the job for my own self esteem, I hate sitting around the house feeling depressed, but again I can understand why many people would simply say it's not worth the hassle, particularly if it also meant losing additional benefits (which I don't get) such as medical card, rent allowance etc
 

Absolutely shocking way to be treating employees. Supermarket does not care because you are only there for temporary work, sort out your own tax afterwards. No wonder people walked off after opening their pay slip. I think I would be one of those. I would rather do charity work for my "dole" payment(probably not allowed as you would not be available for work) than work under those conditions. Good luck and I hope you get something decent soon.
 
I sympathise with JP1234 and I suppose it was not really worth his while doing the work and making less than if he was on the dole.
The supermarket owner is not to blame .He is paying above the national minimum wage and has to keep costs low to attract customers who can shop elsewhere or in northern ireland.Furthermore he could give the job to a newly arrived immigrant who would be delighted as he/she would not be comparing their wages to the dole money as he/she would not be entitled to dole money.
Unfortunately it is welfare rates that will have to be further reduced to make work worthwhile and I think all rates will be down to 100e per person in the not too distant future.A lot of posters here including welfare recipients had no sympathy for the young people who had their dole cut to 100e,but they will be down to 100e per week themselves soon and they won`t be too much sympathy for them either from the general public who will be more concerned with their own tax rises.
People here are very critical of the long term unemployed for not looking for work,for example in Macdonalds.I am not sure how many long term unemployed people queued up for Macdonalds.Probably not many, but what were their chances of getting hired?
Have a look next time at Macdonalds and I bet you that most of the employees are quite young.Employers prefer young workers and older job seekers and the long term unemployed know this and after a while don`t bother applying for certain jobs.
 
sunrock said:
The supermarket owner is not to blame .
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.....not bothering to put in tax credits despite giving in P45....not bothering to put in employees PPS number, incorrect name on payslip. Docking union subs without even asking if person was a member of union.

Sounds like a great place to work.
 
Granted these should have been sorted.I am giving the owner the benefit of the doubt that these were teething problems that would be sorted once they had been pointed out.
What I was really refering to were that the pay rates were above minimum wage and the hours were flexible as no doubt pointed out in the interview.
 
Sunrock, I didn't make it clear but the supermarket is not some cornershop one man show, it's one of the biggest chains in the country, with over 12000 employees, so these were not teething problems, just either laziness, incompetance or plain contempt for staff. I suspect the latter given the brush off I was given when I queried it and speaking to permanent staff there it was a common issue. I was grateful for the work, and the flexible hours, had I been kept on (only 3 out of almost 30 temp staff were) I would have stuck at it, for my own sanity,to fill up space on my CV and show a willingness to work. Most of the people I met were of a similar attitude to me, just wanted to work but when you are driving 36km to a job ( as one girl I met was)and coming out with almost half what the dole pay through no fault of your own it does not make it worthwhile to do.

In my last job we had a few instances of people not getting paid at all because the hr and/or department manager had not submitted a starter form to payroll, we were basically unaware of the person's existence until they came asking where their wages were, and again, the management simply shrugged. A truly terrible way to treat people which is sadly becoming more common.

The point I was really trying to make was it did disinsentivise people to work. Having now been on both sides of the fence I agree the gap between benefits and low pay is too narrow but I am not sure the answer is to reduce benefits for the short term unemployed at least, I have been out of work for 6 weeks, in that time I have sent out at least 30 letters, been for 2 interviews and done some low paid low skilled work. I am not lazy, hardly sitting back and enjoying having everything paid for me by the state but when the only jobs available are so bad I can understand why people just give up ( not that I agree with it mind you and I really do think if people cannot prove they are looking for and willing to accept work they should have their benefits cut substantially after a certain length of time)
 
I do genuinely sympathise with the issues you raised.You know the way sometimes one is shortchanged or sometimes overcharged at the tills and it doesn`t seem to occur the other way around.Of course once the error is pointed out it is sorted.
I am sure it is the same with some supermarket owners in dealing with new tempory staff.Errors are made usually in the supermarkets favor and the tempory worker has to draw their attention to these errors.After all it is not the public service and private buisnesses are tougher on their workers.Can you not get the difference between your wages and the dole made up by the welfare.
Also you are competing against newly arrived immigrants who can`t get the dole and there may also be schemes whereby an unemployed person can still get a financial incentive for a certain amount of time when they get a job and sign off.
Idealism is fine but you might be better off playing the system and doing what gives you the most net money per week.You could find something useful to do with your time, like improving your skills at your chosen sport, doing some language or computer courses or improving your knowledge by buying books on buisness or whatever.
 
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