Have we created a society where not working is encouraged?

S

shnaek

Registered User
Messages
599
From a purely logical point of view, not taking morals into account, what wage do you need to earn to make it worth your while working in Ireland? I'd really like to know. Because it seems to me like we are creating a society where you might be better off financially and with regard to quality of life if you simply stopped working, particularly if you are married and in low paid (30k?) employment. Does anyone know the figures?
 
Just before any urban myths get regurgitated it should be noted that many welfare payments are only available to someone who has been made unemployed - not someone who has just decided to stop working. Others are means tested. Yet more fall under even vaguer criteria and are approved at the discretion of the Welfare Officer.

But away you go, let's see where this thread ends up.
 

There are a lot of people who've never worked and so have never decided to stop working. Also, even if someone decides to stop working or gets themselves fired, they still get dole within a relatively short time.
 
csirl said:
they still get dole within a relatively short time.
Click to expand...
There's no such thing as "the dole". Can you clarify EXACTLY what payment you are referring to, and EXACTLY what criteria must be fulfilled before it is received?
 
Howitzer said:
There's no such thing as "the dole". Can you clarify EXACTLY what payment you are referring to, and EXACTLY what criteria must be fulfilled before it is received?
Click to expand...

I think the dole in this context refers to any and all reliefs that a person can claim if they stop working, whether ligit or not.
 
Howitzer said:
There's no such thing as "the dole". Can you clarify EXACTLY what payment you are referring to, and EXACTLY what criteria must be fulfilled before it is received?
Click to expand...

See below - you can get Jobseekers Allowance within 9 weeks even if you decide to voluntarily stop working.


http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/JobseekerSupports/JobseekersAllowance/Pages/ja.aspx#Rules2
Disqualification from Jobseeker's Allowance

You may be disqualified from getting Jobseeker's Allowance for 9 weeks if you:
  • Left work voluntarily and without just cause
  • Lost your job through misconduct
  • Refused an offer of suitable alternative employment or suitable training.
Suitable employment does not include the employment in a job that is vacant because of a trade dispute. In addition, the employment must be suitable, having regard to your age, sex, physique, education, normal occupation, where you live, rate of pay offered and your family circumstances.
 
9 weeks without any income or benefits. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal. The misses will be delighted when I get home this evening and tell her of our impending good fortune.
 
Are you quitting work, Howitzer? If so, you could head of to Ghoa with your wife and live quite handsomely in the sun for 9 weeks for a pittance. Then when you get home - BAM- sit back, rub your hands, and enjoy them benefits

But we're getting a bit away from the origional topic. Personally, it seems to me that we encourage people not to work in Ireland. And we are only going further down that path with talk of taking child benefit from those on 35k, and charging property tax except on those properties owned by people who don't work. Add in higher levies, and increases in VHI etc, and soon it will be the sensible option to simply down tools. If you were of that way of mind, that is.
 
In addition, the employment must be suitable, having regard to your age, sex, physique, education, normal occupation, where you live, rate of pay offered and your family circumstances.
Click to expand...

This section of the SW guidelines is a disgrace. Essentially it means that if e.g. you are an IT technician, you are allowed to refuse job offers for unskilled labour or even IT technician jobs at lower pay than you used to get. Madness.
 
Minimum wage is €8.65. Say you work 35 hours. You get €302.75.
JSA is €204.30 per week.

Less than €100 for a weeks work.
 
I've heard this point made many times through out my life. I've never heard it made it made by anyone who was ever on any form of State Assistance, or who grew up as the child of a family who were dependant upon State Assistance.

If you feel you'd be living the life of Reilly if you gave up your job and applied for State assistance then go ahead. Do it. It is a sh1t life. You have no future. No hope of advancement in society on a personal or professional basis. You will live a life dependant on others for hand-outs where shame and embarressment are part of your daily routine.

There is no salary that I wouldn't accept before signing on.

If you believe otherwise you have been living a cossetted live divorced from the realities of living with real poverty.
 

+1.
There are an awful lot of hidden benefits to working other than pay.
 
You have no future. No hope of advancement in society on a personal or professional basis.
Click to expand...

That's not strictly true. You could gain new skills through home study and independent examinations (C&G, MCSE, CCNP etc.), gain experience of careers that interest you by volunteering in numerous organisations that need it. Help out as unpaid help (or even 'cash-in-hand' work) in manual labour-intensive work (mechanics, forestry, landscaping, farming etc.). That's without even mentioning FÁS.
How many people would change their careers 'if they could afford it'. Seems to me that those who have no impairment to learn, educate themselves, or make their lives more fulfilling by working at a job they actually 'like', but who actually refuse to bother because it doesn't pay enough extra (in their eyes) over what they recieve on benefits, should have their benefits slashed radically.

These people are not bothered by the embarrassment or shame of it. At least not enough to make them do something about it.
 
I think you are a bit over sensitive to this Howitzer.

Are you telling me there aren't 1000s upon 1000s of people who haven't worked for years, don't want to, live a life free of shame and humiliation and potter along quite nicely thanks, doing cash in hand nixers here and there?

There are loads. I personally know a few.
 
Like I said, if you like the sound of it, if you think society encourages you not to work then stop reading this, stop typing, turn off your PC, walk down to the local Social Welfare office, queue for 4 hours and sign on.

Don't sit here moaning about 'these people', go down there and sign on yourself.
 
I hadn't meant this post to be about attacking those on social welfare. Howitzer - I'be been on JSA in the past, so I do know what I am talking about. No cossetted life here. My point is, we are incentivising not working over working. We are hitting the working people hard, and protecting 'the vulnerable' as if everyone who is on social welfare is 'vulnerable'. As a nation we should value people who work, and we should encourage people to work. That, at least, is my opinion.
 
callybags said:
+1.
There are an awful lot of hidden benefits to working other than pay.
Click to expand...

Couldnt agree more.

I know one young man who was made redundant 6 months ago, signed on, looked for work. After 4 months got a part time job. Money works out at roughly the same as benefit he was claiming, but in his own words 'It was doing my head in not having anything to get up for in the mornings, although financially Im not better off and I have less free time, I just prefer to be working'.

Not everyone is happy to not be working but having essentials provided for by the state - however, some are.

I also personally know someone who turned down the offer of work because 'Ill lose my benefits'.
 
This topic is covered [broken link removed] in todays Itish Times (and no, I didn't leave the comment!)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register