have to move out - apart too small - what to do?

Personal and income details
Net (i.e. after tax) Income self: 2400e/month
Income history: private sector
Net income partner/spouse: 814e/month (JSB)
Income history: made redundant in march 2013
number of children: 1 + second due November
Amount of Mortgage Interest Supplement received: 0
Home loan
Lender: PTSB
Amount outstanding: 218k (29 years left)
Value of home: around 70-80k (one bed apartment)
Interest rate: tracker 2.25% + ECB
Monthly repayment: 760e
Amount in arrears: 0

Because no in arrears I have not approached to bank yet.

Other loans and creditors
Maintenance fees: 3k

Other savings
25k

How important is retaining the family home to you?

I don't care about keeping the family home.

What is your preferred realistic outcome?
We bought that one bed apartment for asking price 260k in 2007. 21k paid from savings. Because second child due now it will be to small for us. I am Polish and also consider come back to Poland.
What other options are there for us?
I consider to make an offer to clear it. Do you think they would accept an offer 25k (my savings), for the amount outstanding and sell apartment?
We have to move out before November as apartment is very small or even come back to Poland. I do not know yet what we will do.

Thanks for any advise

Banks will not accept any offer below what you owe them. Not at first.

Eventually they come to some agreement when they realise that they stand no chance of recovering the money. However, this involves a lot of writing and phoning to and fro.

The agreement or arrangement may mean paying the sum you mention-25K, plus an amount each month.
Or you can go through the messy long process of personal insolvency.

But I think you should just hand the keys back and tell the bank you are going back to Poland. And don't leave them any address, whether or not you actually go to Poland or stay here.

You bought the place six years ago. I assume that you ,besides being a foreign national, may have been single at the time? And that, judging by what and how you write, your partner is also foreign?

I cannot believe the bank was so irresponsible as to lend 260.000 with no security (besides the apartment) to a foreign national, assumedly very young at the time.

It's the banks gross stupiditY. That is why I say :- leave the bank the apartment they thought was worth 260.000 and start a new life with your partner/husband and two babies. And keep your 25.000. You will need it.

To have two small kids ,no money and attempting to pay anything to the bank is crazy and sinful.

Other posters may say a debt is a debt and if everyone did what i suggest then it will be a disaster. There are different circumstances for everyone -and yours is a circumstance where I would have no concern for the bank but only for you and the children.

Hi Mati

Can you rent out the apartment? With a cheap tracker, the interest is only around €500 per month. If you could get a bit more than this in rent, then you would not be losing much money on it, and you could honour your debts.

You could notify ptsb that all you will pay is the rent. Would they like to take the keys back?

You can't opt for personal insolvency as you have not been in the MARP for 6 months and, anyway, you are not insolvent.

I don't agree with Oldnick that it was stupid of ptsb to lend money to a Polish national. If they didn't, they would be accused of racism. The bank can't win.

I would say that the banks have learnt a fair amount in the past few years

• Don't lend to foreign nationals
• Don't lend on apartments as the buyers will want to abandon them when kids arrive
• Don't lend more than 70% loan to value
• Maybe don't even lend to opposite sex couples as they will expect you to fund their children.

Don't lend to foreign nationals
Don't lend on apartments as the buyers will want to abandon them when kids arrive
Don't lend more than 70% loan to value
Maybe don't even lend to opposite sex couples as they will expect you to fund their children.

Click to expand...

That rules a very large segment out-no wonder banks are not lending!!!

If the Market was more normal-there would be no problem lending to people for entry level homes -one bed apts etc, and as these buyers needs change, they trade-with the support of banks that really want to lend ( and not just saying it for TV feel good ads)

OLDNICK - thank you for the advice but understand that I am not a person who like to hide and run away by whole life.
As I said I have not decided whether we stay here or come back. If I come back to Poland, Poland is in the EU, and I suspect that the bank very easily can find me and/or sell debts to a debt collection company in Poland. Surely I will not be run away whole life.

BRENDAN - thanks for the advice
I could rent out an apartment for the 600-650e in my area. Even friend of mine ask me last time would I be interest to rent out my apartment. And then I could find a bigger place for my family for around 900e.
Question: Do I have to notify bank about changes? Will I lose my tracker? Will I lose TRS?
I have checked my family budget and could still manage paying 900e for new rent and 760e mortgage.

You will loose your TRS, as this is a tax relief for owner occupiers. You must contact Revenue and tell them to cancel the TRS.

As for informing the bank this is a private contractual matter between you and the bank, it depends what it says in the contract. I wouldn't contact them in any case

I am fascinated by the way you don't accept Oldnick's advice. I have always suspected that Polish people have a higher standard of personal integrity than Irish people. I would certainly do as Oldnick says, and you would not have to hide and run away.

However if you are not that type of person then fair play to you.

By the way I am fairly certain that Brendan was joking when he said banks have learned not to lend to foreign nationals.

Question: Do I have to notify bank about changes? Will I lose my tracker? Will I lose TRS?

Click to expand...

You are supposed to notify the bank but I would not. You would lose your trs and would be foolish to not notify revenue of this as they will not be as forgiving if you don't. Personally, if you plan on going back to Poland I would walk away as Oldnick stated. I would doubt very much any debt collection agency would bother you in Poland and even if they did just ignore any threats.

Pay your (apartment ?) maintenance arrears. You have savings of 25k.