Has anyone any opinions on the BlackBee Healthcare fund?

You'll get 2 different opinions:
1. A broker selling it will tell you it's the greatest thing ever! It'll usually be someone registering for the first time.
2. Everyone else will tell you to stay away from it.

These type of funds have a huge amount of expenses. There's huge up front commission, and ongoing charges and management fees.
They've lots of pretty graphs, but do the numbers make sense?
There tends to be a fairly limited upside, but a significant downside if things go wrong with these. Look at the projections of income per bed, and value per bed. And then ask why more people aren't in the nursing home business!
 
Look at the other funds they sell

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This is a sign that you should keep well away for them. Red Onion sums it up very well.

Brendan
 
Those charges are crazy. Stay away from it. You are looking at a possible 10% upfront charge for establishment expenses and Preliminary charge (whatever that is). You have minimum of 2.5% ongoing charges but on top of that, there appears to be transaction fees, out of pocket expense fees, fees for preparing financial statements etc etc. You have Matheson as legal advisors and Deloitte as auditors. On a €60m fund that they are targeting, the cost will be significant. That's not to mention the issues raised by Red Onion about income per bed and value per bed considering rising healthcare costs, severe staff shortages.

Zero liquidity on the product. No exit strategy on how you will get your money back apart from vague suggestions like a sale or an IPO.

This should not be targeted to retail customers under any circumstances.
 
RedOnion said:
You'll get 2 different opinions:
1. A broker selling it will tell you it's the greatest thing ever! It'll usually be someone registering for the first time.
2. Everyone else will tell you to stay away from it.
Click to expand...

:) Absolutely spot on.


With low interest rates, these products are becoming more complicated in order to make money and provide the guarantee.

And with low interest rates, deposit holders are attracted to them as they provide this guarantee with the opportunity to make a bit more. Sure, I'm getting nothing on deposit anyway, so why not? Someone is using your money to make money and then they give it back to you. A lot of the time you get back less but they still make money out of your savings.

Risk and return are related. You can't have above interest level returns without taking above interest level risk.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
Thanks for your replies guys ,,,it has clarified a lot of things for me.
 
Good morning. Sorry for bringing this thread up again but a google search lead me to it. We considered this fund sometime ago and decided against it as it was too risky. However it is being recommended to us again in light of current Covid situation and the need for more nursing home beds going forward and also that Blackbee plan to acquire existing well run nursing homes. Would your advice still be the same, to stay away?
 
RedOnion said:
And then ask why more people aren't in the nursing home business!
Click to expand...

There are a lot of institutional investors with substantial funds trying to get into this space which would indicate it offers a solid return. The SBP did a review on this sector recently and there is a lot of overseas money targeting the market. All were described as active acquirers of nursing home assets.

Guernsey based Gottardo (AXA backed)
Frances Infravia,
Canada's Orpea Group,
Australian Private Equity
Singapore Based Trusts
Waterland Dutch Private Equity Has a €16Bn fund and looking to double number of homes it has (7)
Germany’s IMMAC Group
Other well-known Irish business people

That’s serious competition for a new fund and the above operate 1000s of beds already. These kind of investors don’t throw money away so must see something in the market. Demographics show this is a growth area with increasing demand and the competition looks like the biggest issue for a new fund.
 
Hi RedOnion, no I haven't. I was not commenting on the workings of the investment more the demand for the sector. That's why I highlighted your piece about the amount of people in the business.

To be open that comment came from a broker who I asked about investing in this sector as its an area I know well from recently retiring from it (coffeeortea username clue :)). This was presented as the only option the broker could provide for a smaller investor to access this area.
 
Was doing some research on these types of investments and read up on a few Blackbee options. They say that nursing home income won't be impacted as they are paid by the State yet the income for one of their homes is down? Why? Could it be because people are holding off sending their parents to the nursing homes, the most likely place that they'll catch Covid 19?

The product brochures lay out some of the risks but say you should read the prospectus to get a full picture of the risks taken. They prospectus is not available online (same for all the other structured product providers).

These investments are financed by loan notes, which is nothing more than a legal IOU. Blackbee has been using APIS Capital which has been listing this debt on the Cayman Islands stock exchange?? Why?

During this crises, where debt is becoming a real issue and biting companies, do you want to be reliant on the performance of a nursing home?

These investments are usually unregulated so you can't avail of compensation under the Investor Compensation Scheme if it goes bust.

If you want to invest, invest in quality companies and take the ups and downs that go with it. If they tank, you know that over time your investment will recover.

If you want a guarantee, leave it on deposit. At least your money is safe. A guarantee from a nursing home is worthless. You are asking for trouble and there is a real chance that you will LOSE ALL OF YOUR MONEY



Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
I See that Blackbee has had a liquidator appointed....

A few year ago I was interested in one of their products,,but thanks to people on here and doing a bit more research i decline their offer to invest.

So a big shout out to the contributors on here..
 
Unfortunately I have invested with Blackbee,.
I have attached a letter sent to Financial Advisors, they state the Blackbee Alternatives Ltd are not effected by the liquidator, however I fear the worst.
What do people make of this letter?
 

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Chelseablue said:
Unfortunately I have invested with Blackbee,.
I have attached a letter sent to Financial Advisors, they state the Blackbee Alternatives Ltd are not effected by the liquidator, however I fear the worst.
What do people make of this letter?
Click to expand...
A clear example of how muddy the waters are. How many people know if their investments are through Blackbee investments (in liquidation) or Blackbee Alternatives (not in liquidation).

When you advisor sent your information on the unregulated Blackbee Alternatives, did they used headed paper/ emails with "regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland" or was the headed paper/email missing this?

It's all a messy world. I have one client who has money in the nursing homes (not sold through me) and the outlook is far from certain on them.
 
Chelseablue said:
Unfortunately I have invested with Blackbee,.
I have attached a letter sent to Financial Advisors, they state the Blackbee Alternatives Ltd are not effected by the liquidator, however I fear the worst.
What do people make of this letter?
Click to expand...
Hi Chelseablue, Unfortunately I too invested in Blackbee and received the same letter. We have been in touch with our investment advisor and due to have a meeting with him next week, although on the phone he was keen to assure us we would be getting our investment back, but at a later time than agreed. Apparently pay-out's beginning sometime in November 23. I have to say I have lost total trust in our advisor as he suggested another investment to us and that too is not performing or perhaps even getting off the ground! Do you have any suggestions on what type of questions to ask him other than the obvious? We were total novices to investing and feel out of our depth on how best to deal with this.
 
westcoast18 said:
Do you have any suggestions on what type of questions to ask him other than the obvious?
Click to expand...
Just get a different advisor.
These are sometimes unregulated investments. Your advisor should be explaining that very clearly to you. But, the commissions are HUGE, so maybe they are more motivated by their own financial wellbeing than yours.

EDIT: to correct, not all of these investments are unregulated
 
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RedOnion said:
Just get a different advisor.
These are unregulated investments. Your advisor should be explaining that very clearly to you. But, the commissions are HUGE, so maybe they are more motivated by their own financial wellbeing than yours.
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That's the thing, some are, some aren't. I have one client in a nursing home investment (I didn't put him in it) and it is regulated. It is impossible for people to know which are and which aren't.

The lines have become blurred.
 
Steven Barrett said:
The lines have become blurred.
Click to expand...
Agreed. One assumes when they go to a regulated advisor that they are recommended regulated investments. Or simply don't understand the difference.

But regulated of not, I don't like the concept of investments with a capped upside but unlimited downside.
 
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