Hairdresser- no sterilising equipment.

Re: kids in the barber's

Hi Sir H - Do you have kids? Do you ever plan to have kids?

kids, barbers, the whole shooting match

Hi back, Rainyday:

> Do you have kids? Do you ever plan to have kids?

Don't see the point of the question...my earlier point is that parents do not automatically get additional respects/rights merely for bearing offspring.

Some internal switch seems to flick once junior arrives, and (especially new) parents expect the rest of society to accommodate the fact they've managed to knock a baby out.

I genuinely find it selfish and rude of pushy parents to expect others to have to put up their kids by right, and especially:

> Barbers at the weekends etc (see earlier)
> Screaming at functions (weddings etc)
> Running riot in other people's homes
> Let loose in restaurants etc
> And so on...

"I am parent, hear me - and my snot nosed kids - roar!"

Seems to be the MO amongst right-on type parents who do not believe in chatising their children (no, they're little persons, apparently), and letting them away with murder.

kids, barbers, the whole shooting match

Sir H - you're a man after my own heart on this issue! Not all parents and kids are a pain in the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language in this resepct but there ARE a lot of them about... :\

Re: kids, barbers, the whole shooting match

I take it the answer to my question is 'No' then?

Re: kids, barbers, the whole shooting match

> I take it the answer to my question is 'No' then?

So what if it is? Do you think that first hand experience is a necessary precursor to forming valid opinions on ALL issues or just this one? Surely just because I don't have kids myself (even if I practically raised some of my nieces/nephews) doesn't mean that I am precluded from voicing an opinion on how some kids and parents behave?

Re: kids, barbers, the whole shooting match

Surely just because I don't have kids myself (even if I practically raised some of my nieces/nephews) doesn't mean that I am precluded from voicing an opinion on how some kids and parents behave?

Click to expand...

I never said or implied that you or Sir H would be precluded from anything. And please don't call me Shirley.

What's the relevance of whether or not any specific contributor has kids so Shirley?

Surely you know I won't lower myself to answer a question posed in such a provocative manner?

parents ...

Rainyday

We have clearly moved some distance from sterilising barbershop equipment (!), however I don’t see substantiation from you regarding the selfish behaviour of parents when it comes to expecting everyone else to accommodate their children’s behaviour.

You need not be a parent to have to encounter unruly children on a regular basis.

Your point seems to be that parents have a common bond re controlling their kids, and therefore are more likely to tolerate behaviour inflicted by them on ‘innocent bystanders’.

Parents are not entitled to expect the public at large to endure their screaming children running wild.

What of the long haul flight or train journey? Is your suggestion that a child roaring throughout or tearing around the aisles would be favourably received by the passengers on board with children of their own?

I am by no means denigrating the efforts required by parents in rearing their children, but what I do object to is their assumption that the rest of society owes them something because they elected to have a child.

If you’ll excuse me, I’m off to tailgate cars with ‘Baby On Board’ stickers.

Suggest a more accurate wording would be: ‘Smug, slightly insecure, Parent On Board’.

tarring all with one brush

Sir H,
I'm taken aback by your attitude. I cannot believe how you can brand ALL parents as selfish. I agree most definitely there do exist selfish parents and unruly children. BUT not all parents are selfish and not all children unruly. You are being extremely unfair. As a parent I do not expect "extra rights" as you put it but neither do I expect less!
I take my son sometimes to the Barbers on a saturday. I work mon-fri and do not see it as part of my childminder's job to bring my son to get his hair cut. I make sure he behaves and sits quietly for the barber. He takes up no more time then an adult. We pay the higher rate because its a saturday and always go before 3 (no kids after 3 on saturdays), this is fine with me.
It is the same if we go somewhere for something to eat or anywhere else for that manner, I make sure that he behaves.
I'm fed up of hearing calls for people with children to not be allowed in barbers, restuarants etc. If they are causing a disturbance the parents should be asked immediately to sort it out and if this can't be done or they don't then asked to leave.
Of course I've gone completely off the originally topic but I've seen similar remarks made on this forum before, it makes my blood boil and I was not prepared to leave it go this time.

Re: parents ...

Hi Sir H - I made no such points as the words you seem to want to put into my mouth. I merely thought it would be interesting to know where you are coming from.

An example of the sort of think that I (and I think Sir H) object to is the incident that happened in my wife's job the other day. A father brought in his c. 14 year old son who happens to be quite severely autistic and is prone to violent outbursts. While my wife was cutting the son's hair he took such a fit and, in the process, bit my wife on the arm causing it to bleed. The father just sat there looking on and never intervened. While the son was hardly to blame given his condition this is surely out of order by anybody's reckoning? Similar incidents involving children without such mitigating circumstances have happened regularly enough over the years. Some parents and their kids leave a lot to be desired in terms of inappropriate behaviour impacting on innocent bystanders. I don't think that anybody, including Sir H, would claim that ALL are to blame in this respect...

Rainyday and p1ssedoff...

To clarify, my disdain is for selfish parents. This is not an inference that all parents are selfish.

In an effort to prevent this discussion remaining circular, the original point was that (certain) selfish parents expect society to tolerate their kids' behaviour, merely because they do.

This is usually down to two factors:

1: super-liberal parents who don't believe in chastising or controlling their kids, opting instead for the laissez-faire, 'let them express themselves as people' attitude.

Or 2: feckless, ignorant parents that just don't give a damn about anyone else.

While countless numbers of parents are raising well-behaved, pleasant children, it is unfortunately the bad apples that tend to get noticed, and for the wrong reasons.

This is not a call for the 'seen but not heard' victorian approach either. Simply that parents should recognise that it is unreasonable for them to expect others to tolerate their kids' unruly behaviour.

Which reminds me: a few years ago I saw a mother verbally assaulting a pensioner waiting at a bus-stop outside a newsagents. The man was minding his own business on the bench, when the 5/6 year old walks over to him, in full view and under the watchful eye of the mother. Kid starts yapping away to the elderly man, singing/shouting etc, man responds all smiles and politeness. Mother grinning away also...

Then it all kicks off...pensioner hands a 50p towards the kid - in full view of everyone. Mother is a frenzy of shouting - storms over, snatches the coin from the man, thrusting it back in his face. 'What the hell do you think you're doing, have you no sense...etc'. Kid dragged away.

Man mortified and bewildered.
Kid confused and crying.
Mother righteously indignant.

Everyone else gobsmacked. Mother continues muttering to no-one in particular about the affrontery of it all, just can't trust anyone... Everyone pretending not to hear her.

Rainyday,

Do you smoke?

You were pretty vocal on the issue of the smoking ban, But if the logic of this thread is to be followed you really weren't in any position to comment about the discomfort that smokers cause to others unless you yourself are a smoker.

-Rd

For the 3rd time - I merely thought it would be interesting to know where Sir H was coming from.

He was coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't like being bothered by someone elses unruly kids. Whether he has kids of his own or not is irrelevant.

The only point of asking it is that you are suggesting that "He'd Understand" if he had kids of his own. And it's that suggestion that people took exception to.

-Rd

god knows, at this point...

Rainyday: as you won't let it go: there are no H juniors as yet (afaik...)

However, as DaltonR mentioned above, this is hardly relevant to the central issue.

If parenting was a prerequisite to comment on the behaviour of certain parents (and their kids), where would we be when discussing any issue without first hand experience: cf drink drivers, tax evaders, smokers, paedophiles, inter alia?

SH

Re: god knows, at this point...

The only point of asking it is that you are suggesting that "He'd Understand" if he had kids of his own.

Click to expand...

Congratulations on your telepathic ability to read my mind. However, this time you were wide of the mark.

Sir H - Turn the clock forward ten years. You are the proud father of two boys, 4 & 6 years old. Both you & Mrs H work 9-5, M-F and you are so grateful at having found a decent childminder that you have absolutely no intention of risking losing her by asking her to take on more work.

Whatcha gonna do when they need their next haircut?

PS When you did a DIY cut a few months ago, your kids were teased out on the road for weeks and Mrs H didn't speak to you for a month.

Re: god knows, at this point...

Maybe we can open another Comminity Chest to buy this for Rainyday and the rest of us can get on with more straightforward/reasonable discussion of issues... :rolleyes

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