Greenan Open Fund investment

Gordon Gekko said:

That was your big mistake. Of course there are good brokers out there. Steven and Liam, for example, based on their posting history.

However, and this is merely my own view, most are as dishonest as they are stupid. Chancers and charlatans out to rape and pillage and fill their boots insofar as they can. The world of the financial broker is a swamp in which clients must tread very carefully.

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I thank you for your comments on my AAM posts. But I disagree with your post in general. I could counter with my own opinion that, having been in the life & pensions business for over 30 years, I have met scores of brokers and most of them are professionals trying to provide a good service and make an honest living. The smaller outfits in particular have a strong motivation to do a good job - referral business. Anyone that's been in the business for more than a few years knows that repeat and referral business is the strongest form of advertising you have. If you rip a single customer off, they might not know immediately but they'll know in a few years' time when their fund values are rubbish. You've just chopped down an entire family tree of potential referrers, along with their friends and colleagues. Increasing regulation has also raised the standard and got rid of some of the chancers. Are there still dodgy, incompetent, greedy and/or downright dishonest brokers out there? Hell yes. Would I agree with your statement "most are as dishonest as they are stupid"? No. But then this would be merely my opinion based on anecdotal evidence of my own experience, against your opinion, also presumably based on your own experience.

can’t get nav returns for each year from Greenman. Anytime I check their website they are maintaining everything is ok and quarterly distributions are being met. They have maintained that 2020 had returns of 5% but when digging deeper I discover it’s more like 2%. Has anyone any experience with this fund or this company.

Extraspin said:

can’t get nav returns for each year from Greenman. Anytime I check their website they are maintaining everything is ok and quarterly distributions are being met. They have maintained that 2020 had returns of 5% but when digging deeper I discover it’s more like 2%. Has anyone any experience with this fund or this company.

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I’m in this investment since April 2020 and to date I have seen a 1.6% fund value increase and have had returns paid back to me of just over €2,000. I’m told there will also be an additional bonus of 1% paid in Jun/Jul which means my total return is 1.6% fund growth plus €2,508 in dividends or as they call them distributions. I can see this as I have access to my account and its clearly laid out. This means my return is 6.61% for 15 months and in line with what I was told it would do. Another thread mentioned 8% returns, I was advised between 5 to 6%. I’m in the option that pays out dividends but there is another option that rolls the dividends up if I recall which means the fund growth would be higher.

Coffeeortea said:

I’m in this investment since April 2020 and to date I have seen a 1.6% fund value increase and have had returns paid back to me of just over €2,000. I’m told there will also be an additional bonus of 1% paid in Jun/Jul which means my total return is 1.6% fund growth plus €2,508 in dividends or as they call them distributions. I can see this as I have access to my account and its clearly laid out. This means my return is 6.61% for 15 months and in line with what I was told it would do. Another thread mentioned 8% returns, I was advised between 5 to 6%. I’m in the option that pays out dividends but there is another option that rolls the dividends up if I recall which means the fund growth would be higher.

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I'm very interested to read that you have (online?) access to your account. Did your broker arrange this for you? I ask because I have to ask my broker for statements and would much prefer to have my own access.

In the 3 years since I invested in Greenman, the value of my capital investment has fallen by 1.2%; however, I have received quarterly distributions (and bonuses) worth about 13% of its original value. Of course, as the distributions are taxed at 41% the net value to me is only 7.8% of the value of the investment. But overall I'm quite satisfied with the performance of my Greenman investment to date.

We really like UCITs funds which are priced daily and publish their price publicly and can also provide audited accounts.

Then you know what you hold, what it costs and what it’s worth.

Given that, why would you buy this fund?


Marc Westlake
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
www.globalwealth.ie

Shirazman said:

I'm very interested to read that you have (online?) access to your account. Did your broker arrange this for you? I ask because I have to ask my broker for statements and would much prefer to have my own access.

In the 3 years since I invested in Greenman, the value of my investment has fallen by 1.2%; however, I have received quarterly distributions (and bonuses) worth about 13% of its original value. Of course, as the distributions are taxed at 41% the net value to me is only 7.8% of the value of the investment. But overall I'm quite satisfied with the performance of my Greenman investment to date.

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I’m sorry, but this Greenman stuff is just being flogged by brokers because it pays them juicy commissions.

It’s a German property fund with leverage designed to make money for the promoters and for its distributors, who are mainly old school “wanna buy a watch” brokers.

If my adviser showed me Greenman, I’d look for a new adviser.

is this a re-run of the recent blow up in German property plays?

Gordon Gekko said:

If my adviser showed me Greenman, I’d look for a new adviser.

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What's the point? I'm currently on my fourth. And at this point I'm fed up of the lot of them.

By far the best return that I got from any investment that I've ever made came from the 10 year National Solidarity Bond (1st issue) - and I selected that all by myself without any input from QFA!

Marc said:

We really like UCITs funds which are priced daily and publish their price publicly and can also provide audited accounts.

Then you know what you hold, what it costs and what it’s worth.

Given that, why would you buy this fund?

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Because my *****y QFA recommended it.

Incidentally, who is or are "we"?

A QFA is meaningless. It’s the most basic of qualifications. You should be dealing with CFAs, CFPs, tax consultants, etc.

Gordon Gekko said:

A QFA is meaningless. It’s the most basic of qualifications. You should be dealing with CFAs, CFPs, tax consultants, etc.

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And what guarantee would I have the next professional adviser with a fancy acronym that I deal with will be any better than the previous ones?

Answer: absolutely none. Or, to quote Steven "I don't give guarantees".

My guess is that you are going to sales brokers who are paid a commission for selling you a product when what you are seeking is objective advice



There is no fiduciary standard in Ireland, as there is in the USA for example.

Financial planners have to hold themselves to higher standards and in my view one way is setting out clearly their investment philosophy

Coffeeortea said:

I’m in this investment since April 2020 and to date I have seen a 1.6% fund value increase and have had returns paid back to me of just over €2,000. I’m told there will also be an additional bonus of 1% paid in Jun/Jul which means my total return is 1.6% fund growth plus €2,508 in dividends or as they call them distributions. I can see this as I have access to my account and its clearly laid out. This means my return is 6.61% for 15 months and in line with what I was told it would do. Another thread mentioned 8% returns, I was advised between 5 to 6%. I’m in the option that pays out dividends but there is another option that rolls the dividends up if I recall which means the fund growth would be higher.

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In that period, a global index of stocks is up 50% and the S&P 500 is up 53%. This is way above the long term average return that would be expected for an equity fund, but then, I don't make any predictions on returns and will always welcome these high returns...as long as investors know that there will be bumps in the road too.

Marc said:

My guess is that you are going to sales brokers who are paid a commission for selling you a product when what you are seeking is objective advice

There is no fiduciary standard in Ireland, as there is in the USA for example.

Financial planners have to hold themselves to higher standards and in my view one way is setting out clearly their investment philosophy

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A lot of them don't though Marc. I've seen lots of cases of double commission plays from CFPs. In a bid of boost their number, the FPSB have also allowed tied agents to be CFPs. They eat what they kill and can only earn an income from selling products to people. It is near on impossible for someone to identify who is just going to try to flog them something and who is working on their behalf. The easiest way to do it is ask the advisor if they will work on a fee basis.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

Stephen you are absolutely correct it’s the payment mechanism that is to blame.

The Central Bank looked at this recently and under intense pressure from the financial services industry in Ireland and contrary to international regulatory standards didn’t ban commissions on the sale of investment products.

And only yesterday I met a doctor who was being pushed (not too strong a word) to buy an ARF against his long term interests

Marc said:

Stephen you are absolutely correct it’s the payment mechanism that is to blame.

The Central Bank looked at this recently and under intense pressure from the financial services industry in Ireland and contrary to international regulatory standards didn’t ban commissions on the sale of investment products.

And only yesterday I met a doctor who was being pushed (not too strong a word) to buy an ARF against his long term interests

Physician heal thyself - Everlake

The GMS Pension is administered by Mercer and most Doctors and GPs will contact Mercer for advice on their retirement options. We believe that such an important decision warrants objective Independent Financial Advice.

globalwealth.ie

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Did a review recently and was asked to look at whether is was a good idea to transfer his DB benefits to a buy out bond. Upon looking into it, it was an old DB with indexation in retirement in the rules. If he went into a DC environment, he would have to get returns of 17% per annum to match what he was giving up. Yet lots of his colleagues did. And you get bet your bottom dollar that they got paid a hell of a lot more from the commission they earned to give bad advice than the fee I earned to save someone tens of thousands.

The Central Bank needs to ban commissions on products. Simple

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

Steven Barrett said:

n that period, a global index of stocks is up 50% and the S&P 500 is up 53%. This is way above the long term average return that would be expected for an equity fund, but then, I don't make any predictions on returns and will always welcome these high returns...as long as investors know that there will be bumps in the road too.

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Hi Stephen, Thankfully a good portion of my portfolio was able to partake in that gain after dropping earlier in the year. My Greenman fund is a small percentgae of my overall portfolio (about 9% from last update) and held in a pension so I dont pay 41% tax as someone mentioned. I'm aware of the leverage from the suitability document. This was explained to me along with with low rates this is locked into with the capacity for repayment. The 4 main tenants that help fund these are the biggest retailers in Europe in the food sector, so unless we all stop eating they should pay the rent I was pleased to see it do what the adviser said it would do over the last year. He is a CFP and looked after our family for years and came from a recommendation I saw on this page many years ago.