Greeks - We're not Ireland the Rich should pay

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ccbkd

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Says it all really..NAMA banks and developers let of the hook while the sychophant confused public work for years later than planned to help pay back the gombeen man culture
 
Don't have link, it was on the 1 o'clock news (reporting from protests in Athens ) but I suspect the papers will carry it tomorrow
 
Funny chant. Lets see if they are still chanting that when the Germans take over...

Even though didn't one of politicians call the German's Nazi's last week? They really know how to make trouble for themselves
 
Blaming the banks for our woes is like people blaming McDonalds for making them fat.
 
Blaming the banks for our woes is like people blaming McDonalds for making them fat.
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Would you blame cigarette companies for cigarette deaths?
 
Even though the cigarette companies knew for years that cigarettes were harmful, didn't tell their customers, and also did huge advertising campaigns. They often marketed cigarettes to the young.

With these facts in mind, you do not believe cigarettes companies are to blame for cigarette deaths? Even partly?
 
ccbkd said:
Says it all really..NAMA banks and developers let of the hook while the sychophant confused public work for years later than planned to help pay back the gombeen man culture
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How are developers being let off the hook?
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Even though the cigarette companies knew for years that cigarettes were harmful, didn't tell their customers, and also did huge advertising campaigns. They often marketed cigarettes to the young.

With these facts in mind, you do not believe cigarettes companies are to blame for cigarette deaths? Even partly?
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What's your point? If the banks broke the law then those involved should go to prison.

The title of this thread says it all; "Greeks - We're not Ireland the Rich should pay". Why should the rich pay? What about the people who got rich by making stuff and exporting it? What about the people who got rich starting up software companies? What about the people who got rich starting up medical device companies? Did they cause the problem? The reality is that the average plumber/carpenter/ bricklayer/ plasterer/ electrician did more to cause the problem than "the rich" I have listed above.

If the Greeks are a bunch of begrudging jealous fools then that's a pity but it's no reason for us to follow suit.
 
Purple said:
The title of this thread says it all; "Greeks - We're not Ireland the Rich should pay". Why should the rich pay? What about the people who got rich by making stuff and exporting it? What about the people who got rich starting up software companies? What about the people who got rich starting up medical device companies? Did they cause the problem? The reality is that the average plumber/carpenter/ bricklayer/ plasterer/ electrician did more to cause the problem than "the rich" I have listed above.

If the Greeks are a bunch of begrudging jealous fools then that's a pity but it's no reason for us to follow suit.
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I think that before that wonderful (and peculiarly Irish) word 'begrudging' is used in this context, it is worth remembering that these are different countries with different problems.

Clearly, the Greek economy is a mess - years of not dealing with obvious economic issues have now come back to bite the country on the bum (sounds familiar?).

Greece has a taxation system that works well in the PAYE sector - so all the salaried employees, public and private, get tax deducted at source. All good and fair, as we would all agree. However, only a very small proportion of self employed people pay their tax due. The typical attitude is to declare a small income and take all other payments in cash, which is wy Greece is a nation of poor people living rich lives! This includes almost all doctors, hospital consultants who get top ups in cash, etc. These are the rich that the demonstrators are complaining about. Not simply because they are rich but because there are plenty of people with income of hundreds of thousands who declare 20K for tax purposes. This level of tax evasion does not happen in Ireland (although clearly there are people here who avoid tax), but of course the Greek middle income earners are now pretty sore about paying for this mess while the tax evaders continue to demand their cash payments.

The problem will be solved once they throw a few people in prison for tax evasion, which will concentrate the mind of the rest of them :).
 
Diziet said:
Greece has a taxation system that works well in the PAYE sector - so all the salaried employees, public and private, get tax deducted at source. All good and fair, as we would all agree. However, only a very small proportion of self employed people pay their tax due. The typical attitude is to declare a small income and take all other payments in cash, which is wy Greece is a nation of poor people living rich lives! This includes almost all doctors, hospital consultants who get top ups in cash, etc. These are the rich that the demonstrators are complaining about. Not simply because they are rich but because there are plenty of people with income of hundreds of thousands who declare 20K for tax purposes. This level of tax evasion does not happen in Ireland (although clearly there are people here who avoid tax), but of course the Greek middle income earners are now pretty sore about paying for this mess while the tax evaders continue to demand their cash payments.
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So all plumbers, carpenters, electricians, Teachers (who do grinds), gardeners, painters, stall owners, shopkeepers, solicitors (who accept cash payments) etc in Greece are rich.... wow, what a great country.
 
What's your point? If the banks broke the law then those involved should go to prison.
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The cigarette companies didn't break any laws either.

I suppose my point is that it's easy to have a knee-jerk reaction of 'blame the borrowers'. I would normally agree with that stance too. However, Ireland's situation needs closer scrutiny.

We know that during the bubble, the price of houses was directly related to available credit, not supply and demand. Credit was supplied by the banks, and appeared to be unregulated by the government.

For the smoking analogy I don't blame the cigarette companies, as far as we know they acted within the law. I wouldn't blame the smokers because they were lied to and manipulated. This only leaves the governments. The governments were influenced by lobby groups. They put themselves in a position of power, but neglected the duties that they themselves claim responsibility for.

So who do we blame for the bubble?
 
How about the public who demanded lower house costs and that the banks lend to them so that their sons and daughters could afford to buy a house. Higher supply = lower cost hence the builders met the demand.

If you really want to blame anyone its the people who bought up the houses to rent them or resell them for capital gain, they pushed up prices for the genuine first time buyers and led to the feeding frenzy of property development. Also blame the county councils that granted planning permission for housing estates in Ballyrandombog, estates that we never needed.
 
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