Govt to buy out Toll bridge?

It seems as if one of the major "vote buying" planks of the next budget will be to buy out the contract on the West Link toll bridge from NTR. Figures in the region of 600 million have been bandied about. This seems like an incredibly good deal for NTR and not such a good one for us the Irish tax payer. Sure for that money you could get yourself 2 entire PPARS software applications!

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=1662770&issue_id=14435

Aren't there plans to install 6 more toll plazas on the national road network? We'll never learn.

CelloPoint said:

Aren't there plans to install 6 more toll plazas on the national road network? We'll never learn.

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Yet again, someone falling into the Shane Ross/Eamon Dunphy trap of believing that the toll bridge is the cause of congestion on the M50. Why is it that people believe a former economist and a former footballer (neither of whom probably use the M50 at peak times when there's the real problems) than to examine the problems logically for themselves.

If anyone has used the toll plazas on the M1 and M4, you'll see no congestion there at all in and around the toll plazas.

The problem on the M50 is huge amounts of traffic hindered by poor road planning and junction management at each junction. If you remove the toll plaza, that will do nothing for the congestion on the M50. The causes of the problems, the junctions, are all still there.

The M1/M50 roundabout will still be the same. The Naas road exit will still cause backlogs. The Tallaght/Ballymount exits will still see congestion and backlogs. The Leopardstown exit will still see large backlogs of traffic heading into Sandyford.

These are all major problem areas on the M50, and none of them are caused by the toll bridge.

If people fall for Berties sleight of hand here... sorry, when people fall for it, it'll be yet another sorry electoral day for this country. But by then, the country will be €600m or whatever poorer, we'll still have traffic problems on the M50, but Bertie and co will be back in power, and won't care a jot.

Why not have a couple of toll free days? That would provide proof as to whether it was responsible for congestion or not.

shnaek said:

Why not have a couple of toll free days? That would provide proof as to whether it was responsible for congestion or not.

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Good idea. Bank holiday Monday next would be a nice gift to the citizens of Ireland.

If people fall for Berties sleight of hand here... sorry, when people fall for it, it'll be yet another sorry electoral day for this country.

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Agree with your sentiments, but we should remember that this was a Sindo story on a slow week in the middle of the summer.

CelloPoint said:

Good idea. Bank holiday Monday next would be a nice gift to the citizens of Ireland.

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Yes, because traffic on a bank holiday Monday in the middle of summer holidays will be totally representative of a regular morning's rush hour.

sounds like something they'd do Ronan!

A departed poster on this site, DaltonR, will be happy to hear this!

How far would E600m go towards:
- Expanding and improving the current road system?
- Introducing park-and-ride facilities?
- Connecting the Luas lines to each other?
- Building a light rail connection from Dublin city centre to Dublin airport? (We are apparently among the richest countries on earth and we have no reliable public transport connection between our capital city and our major airport. Just think about that for a moment.)


And maybe even a transport plan for large cities outside Dublin? Or do we wait until they become as clogged as the capital?

CelloPoint said:

Good idea. Bank holiday Monday next would be a nice gift to the citizens of Ireland.

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Last year Newstalk ran a competition where the winner wanted to pay 1k to let cars go through the M50 toll.
You would have thought that they would have lifted ALL the barriers until the 1k was reached.
No they designated one lane and the barrier had to come up/down for each car.

The toll causes conjestion just as much as the junctions

autumnleaf said:

How far would E600m go towards:
- Expanding and improving the current road system?

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For €600m you could probably build an identical bridge right next to the existing one and give drivers the option - we'll see how much NTR will want to hang on to their albatross then!!!

ronan_d_john - as a regular M50 user, I don't see buying out the bridge as the panacea for all of our M50 woes, but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, does it irk me to pay for the privilege of sitting in that traffic!

And maybe even a transport plan for large cities outside Dublin?

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Dublin is not a large city. Have I missed something? Has a new one million plus urban area sprouted up somewhere in the country?

I agree with RDJ 100% about the Dumphy/ Ross line of bull. I use the M50 every day and the toll is not the problem.

If the contract doesnt prevent it,i think the governement should build a competing bridge or a tunnel , its only 400metres wide so a tunnel wouldnt be that expensive and would be a way of bargaining ntr down.

Purple said:

I agree with RDJ 100% about the Dumphy/ Ross line of bull. I use the M50 every day and the toll is not trhe problem.

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I think the toll is the problem, however it is very hard to argue either side without seeing how the M50 performs when the toll is removed. I certainly wouldn't bet €600M on my being right.

Why not pay NTR to remove the barriers for a week or two and see what happens? NTR has steadfastly resisted such offers which leads me to believe they think the toll bridge is a congestion issue.

Presumably what FF will do is announce they will buy out the toll shortly after the election. People will vote for them assuming their problems will be solved and Ahern won't care either because his objective of securing a 3rd term will have been achieved.

How to you dig a tunnel over a valley?
The toll will stay whomever owns it and we, the people, get most of the money anyway so why buy it?

conor_mc said:

ronan_d_john - as a regular M50 user, I don't see buying out the bridge as the panacea for all of our M50 woes, but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, does it irk me to pay for the privilege of sitting in that traffic!

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Well, technically, you're paying for the privelage of driving across the bridge, and most of the time, that's fairly free moving. You're paying your taxes to sit in the traffic on the rest of the M50 .

conor_mc said:

For €600m you could probably build an identical bridge right next to the existing one and give drivers the option - we'll see how much NTR will want to hang on to their albatross then!!!!

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bearishbull said:

i think the governement should build a competing bridge or a tunnel , its only 400metres wide so a tunnel wouldnt be that expensive and would be a way of bargaining ntr down.

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This eventuality is prevented apparently in the contract for the original bridge. NTR were obviously a lot more forward thinking than the muppets who signed on our behalves.

room305 said:

I think the toll is the problem,

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Do you use the M50? Drive southbound on a proper commuting morning (not these days) and experience the backlogs at Naas Road exit, Tallaght exit, Ballymount exit, and the Leopardstown/Sandyford exit? The toll bridge is behind you, yet the traffic is manic on those junctions at peak times.

would be a waste of money, the cost of the toll is cheep compaired to france etc, doesn't add to dealys much, the problem was the m50 ws designed in the 60's and traffic ect has grown far far far more than could ever have been expected.

Cheap compared to France, I presume that is a joke

I regularly use French motorways, about €10 for a 400 km 3 lane motorway.

And if you go on a short trip it is about €1 for a superb motorway to bypass a city (say 10 km or thereabouts).

What is the toll bridge, about 500m is it?

I dislike the toll, but I would feel a lot worse if €600million was spent to get rid of it.
I agree with Room305 - it's political gamesmanship at the moment. And I think it will be unlikely to happen. Far more likely would be some sort of deal where NTR get to toll an already paid for section of motorway - thus it will seem like we haven't paid them €600million.
And 'seeming' to solve problems is what government is all about.