Govt ‘will have to stem flow of shoppers across border’

elefantfresh said:
The retails are very slow to lower their prices due to "insurance costs, wages, cost of doing business here etc blah blah blah" we're listening to that for years.
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If ROI retailers cut their wages to NI levels, they will be prosecuted for breaching minimum wage legislation.

They can only cut their insurance costs by opting not to insure, a false economy if there ever was one given our compo culture and the generosity of our courts.

If they knowingly trade at a loss, the ODCE will be after them for reckless trading.

What else do you propose?
 
Facts as I see them are:

Buying down here leads to the following:
VAT collected will ultimately be distributed to the citizens to this country
Wages are paid to people in this country who will most likely spend them in this country
Profits will go to the owners (whomever they may be) less 12.5% tax which will be distributed in this country

Buying up north leads to the following:
VAT collected will ultimately be distributed to the citizens to the UK (only 1.5m out of 60m of them live on this Island)
Wages are paid to people in the North
Profits will go to the owners (whomever they may be) less tax which will be distributed in the UK

As far as I'm concerned any individual can do as they wish but collectively by spending up north, in new york, etc, we're impoverishing our own economy. Jobs will be lost and public services will be cut.

Maybe this is what we need to become competitive again.

On a separate point. We've heard the stories of people wheeling huge trolley's of booze from newry supermarkets into southern reg cars. I can't help but think that people are seeing what they believe to be bargains and buying for the sake of it. It's the old greed raising it's head again i.e. if others are benefitting from cheap good in the North then I'm losing out by not doing the same
 


Correct: If people want lower prices then we need to cut our cost base to NI levels. Hands up who is in favour of lowering the minimum wage?
Now that property prices and building costs have gone down insurance should also drop, however with the credit crunch this might not happen.
 
What else do you propose?
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I havnt got a freakin clue! I have absolutly no idea how to go about fixing this - thats not my job to know how. All i know is that for the last couple of "larger" purchases that i have made it isnt far off double the price to do that here. Until the people i PAY to sort this out, actuallly DO sort it out, then i will continue doing what i do.
Do you honestly believe that the majority of people on here would have spent 700e instead of 400e for the same product???? I certainly dont believe that. Dont get me wrong, i would much prefer to keep the money here but not at a cost to my pocket at that huge difference in price. People on here would be calling me an idiot if i was paying almost double by choice!
If the retailers here got even close to the competition then i would quite happlily keep my money here.
 
But the retailers have to operate within the cost base that this economy offers, they have no choice. That’s the point being made; don’t blame them for high prices because it’s not their fault. A 6% VAT differential, higher wages, higher insurance, higher rates, higher indirect taxes, higher cost of services, higher cost of utilities etc etc etc... you get the point?

In order to compete with a lower cost economy we need to lower out costs or increase our level of productivity (preferable both) but in the retail sector increasing productivity is hard to do as so many of the costs are beyond their control.
 
... you get the point?
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He he! I get you Purple. And everytime i watch Q+A or Primetime or any such program we get the same sort of answers. And you're right i'm sure. But, the fact remains - my musical equipment was not too far off half price. What should i have done? Paid the extra and kept my money here?
 
No, you should buy what you want from whomever you want... but you should also vote for whatever party proposes lowering the cost base in the next election. That’s about all you (or most of us) can do.
 
Then there's the likes of me - I live so close to NI that I would actually be going out of my way to shop in the republic (!)

When faced with inconvenience and usually higher prices it's a no-brainer for me really. But again, for people in my geographical position, shopping in NI is not a recent phenomenon.
 
Purple said:
No, you should buy what you want from whomever you want... but you should also vote for whatever party proposes lowering the cost base in the next election. That’s about all you (or most of us) can do.
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What if you don't vote?? *Dives for cover*
 
elefantfresh said:
Until the people i PAY to sort this out, actually DO sort it out, then i will continue doing what i do.
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Just don't be surprised when the problem lands on your door. The VAT you pay isn't just for Brian Cowen's wages, it's for schools, roads, hospitals, old age pensions, etc.
As a nation we can decide to vote no to things that benefit us, we can purchase goods abroad, we can go on strike. We think we're teaching the policticians a lesson???? The government is probably there until 2012.
I work in the financial sector. I can see pretty clearly how this will impact me. Retail businesses fall, retail jobs are lost, insurance business falls, pensions and investments business falls, financial services employees lose their jobs, it becomes a vicious circle
 

The real solution is to look for value for the taxes we pay. Decreasing taxes by 10% won’t impact on services if there is a 10% increase in efficiency. The same thing applies in reverse; if we increase taxes by 10% and productivity is reduced by 10% then we are no better off. This can be seen clearly in the health service; spending up will over 200% in the last few years, employees up well over 100%, and only a marginal improvement in services.
 

I work in the financial sector as well and to be honest as I said before we don't seem to have a problem attracting foreign capital at the expense of other country's tax take so why is it any different that individuals take advantage of lower tax and favourable exchange rates. My company is sitting here in the IFSC paying 12.5% tax compared to our parents tax rate of 38%. Is that wrong as well?

The argument about making the Republic of Ireland as competitive as the UK is a valid but seperate argument. Let the Government do something about spiralling energy costs, infrastructure, wages (Minimum wage needs to be looked at) etc.

The cost base in this country and help for small business needs to be examined. Instead we waste our time calling for people to be patriotic and pay more than what we can pay elsewhere. By the way has anyone considered that the money saved by shopping in the North probably helps other areas of the economy down South. Retailers and the Government might not be happy but maybe I will decide to spend what I saved on a night out in a restaurant instead of spending it all in the shop down South.
 

Excellent post
 

I haven't said there's anything wrong with going up north.

I'm just making the practical point that spending up North is draining our own exchequer from which public spending is funded.

No doubt the exchequer has benefitted from the low corporation tax regime in the past

No doubt the fact that these benefits were distributed back in the form of public sector wage increases has made us uncompetitive.

Ultimately economics will dictate that prices between here and up north will have to come to an equilibrium no matter how "patriotic" we try to be.

Collectively though we are taking food from our own mouths in the short term. It probably needs to be done to restore competitiveness, but collectively we can't go blaming "government" for job losses. It is we who are putting ourselves out of jobs and instigating the drive towards a more competitve economy
 
Would it help if people buying in Newry bought only Irish manufactured goods ?

Food (as purchased in supermarkets) is zero rated for VAT here, so there is no differential to be accounted for in this context.

Ireland is not the only country in Europe to share a border with another country - we are not unique in having to contend with different cost bases across the border, yet the others seem to get on OK with this. I'm sure some countries have regional initiatives or other compensation plans for certain industries or retailers in border regions.

And finally, no matter what other factors are in play here, it is human nature for most people to seek out the best use for a scarce resource like money. It is simply not logical for an individual with limited money (like you and me) to seek to better the economy on an ongoing basis by consistently spending more money than is required to purchase a commodity like food. Most people will view the trade-off as being between their families wellbeing and that of society and will come down in favour of their family. When money is relatively easy to come by (like it was for the last few years) people do not feel the pressure on their family wellbeing and so may be prepared to spend more than required, but as soon as money supplies are restricted this is bound to change.

z
 
There is a big difference between exchanging and refunding. I don't believe that M&S et al will refund liberally without a receipt (showing the currency paid).
 
Complainer said:
There is a big difference between exchanging and refunding. I don't believe that M&S et al will refund liberally without a receipt (showing the currency paid).
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Which is why I made it clear that I only have experience of exchanging items, rather than getting refunds. They probably would have an issue with refunding items purchased in a different currency.
 
Purple said:
Correct: If people want lower prices then we need to cut our cost base to NI levels. Hands up who is in favour of lowering the minimum wage?
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ok, but do not forget those higher up too. Reducing minimum wage by 10% will not save very much. However, every business needs accouinants to do its books, annual returns etc. How about cutting their hourly rate by say 20 or 30 euro ? Also of course the public service pay rates should be reduced drastically....given the security + perks of such jobs, why should they be paid so much more than the private sector ?

A lot of changes, from the pay rate of the teeshock down, need to be implemented. We are the laughing stock of the world paying him more than the president of the US, Germany , France etc....all much much bigger , industrialised countries. Our other president costs a packet too - give her the average industrial wage, she has enough other perks.
 
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