got 70k USD, want to buy a bar, somewhere in South America

suppleness

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I'm 22 and I am sick of working in offices.
I've managed to work and scrimp and save and get 70k USD together.
I'm in Buenes Aires at the moment, but I am Irish. I've been in South America for quite some time now.

Now, I know that you all invest in places like Bulgaria etc in houses and so on.
But I was looking at beachfront or beach-town properties or lots in Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Uruguay and Argentina. As well as considering central america.

I want to buy a lot, or buy a property, extend it, and build a bar or hostel/bar.
I don't care about money. It is not an investment as such, but rather to buy a lifestyle. I don't think that I will be rich. But I do think that I can have a nice commute along the beach to work, in a place that I want to work in, for myself, with nice weather and a bit of seaside around.

I was looking at canoa, Ecuador and Mompiche, ecuador.
Does anybody know anything that would help me?
My spanish is ok, and I would really like to live and work in South America.
Its a nicer, easier lifestyle.
Can anybody recommend any resources or places to me?
Or has anybody seen anything for sale which would fit my budget?

I have seen nice lots for sale in Chile for 3k USD with great views of the beach and reasonable amounts of tourism.
I think that I can turn out a good hostel-bar-pizzeria-etc with the rest.

Any advice of up and coming places or anything helpful in general would be great, thanks :)
 
Re: got 70k USD, want to buy a bar

Do you have any experience in managing a bar?

(Maybe you'd be better off buying a bar of gold)
 
Re: got 70k USD, want to buy a bar

Have you looked at prices? I don't have much specific info but I do recall that the owners of the Bigfoot hostel in Leon, Nicaragua were selling earlier in the year and, although it was an established business, they were looking at the low/mid hundred thousands... While you could probably get a site, you'd really have to look into permissions etc. in the locality. I would start working in a hostel/bar first of all (with an ex-pat so that you learn the ropes of both the business and the red tape) and work from there. Can't comment on the locations you suggested as I've never been to Ecuador (yet!) I can't imagine that a site for 3k in Chile is a good bet - anything that is worth investing in would be much more expensive than that in Chile, I reckon.

Here's a blurb from The World Bank Group (whoever they are) about setting up in Ecuador. I know that Price Waterhouse (for one) does guides for setting up businesses in various jurisdictions and that would also be a good start.

For what it's worth, I think it's a nice dream but I think you need to get relevant experience on the ground to chose your spot and business carefully. Good hostels will always make money. For example, Big Foot in Leon made money hand over fist because of their volcano boarding (a really cool idea, good hook, all the backpackers did it for $20 a pop and came back for drinks afterwards). And that was before you took the rooms into account...
 
Re: got 70k USD, want to buy a bar

My advice would be to lease a premises and not buy one. Places like S.A with widespread corruption are hard to start a business that involves building something. You'll have allsorts coming out of the woodwork about permit this and that and a lot of people will try and hoodwink a young man like yourself if they think you have 70K to play with
Like the other poster mentioned on your experience running a bar. Whether you can do it or not, you mightnt enjoy too much after a while, and if you have an escape clause in your lease you leaving yourself with outs, plus your start up costs and pain should be a lot lower.
 
Re: got 70k USD, want to buy a bar

If you want to own and run a bar you should try working in one first to get experience and to see how you like it. It may sound like a nice lifestyle but it can be hard work and long hours!You said "I have seen nice lots for sale in Chile". What exactly is a "lot"? Do you mean a site?
 
Re: got 70k USD, want to buy a bar

Che Legarto (hostel + bar + restaurant) in BsAs (they're also in Rio and Sao Paulo) is a franchise. If you familiarised yourself with a location with a steady stream of tourists (i.e. planning, permissions, licenses, market &c.) and approached them, I'm sure they'd be happy to get you up and running. You'd benefit from huge brand awareness in SA, best practices, financial support &c.
 
Re: got 70k USD, want to buy a bar

Thanks for the sarcasm, but also thanks for the real advice guys :)
Funnily enough, my money is actually almost all in gold right now, because of the dollar/euro mess. But thats another story.

Yes, I do have experience in both construction in this area with relevant materials, and actually managing/working in a bar. Cross concrete, cane wood, with some structural steel. I've also spoken to tons of ex pats who run bars out here, and I believe that red-tape is minimal.

Of course I understand the corruption out here, I've had to pay my share of backhanders to even the lowliest public worker. But there is something more powerful than corruption, and that is the dollar. The dollar can buy or overcome almost any obstacle, this unfortunately is life out here, but I can play the game. I am young, but not stupid as some imply.
I am not interested in leases, mortgages, or franchises. I want to buy a lifestyle that I own, not a bank.

Yes, over here the term is "lot" for a site, sorry I thought that was clear. My bad. And "nice lots" in this context means half acres close to the centre of town/seaside village.

Licenses are not really a problem here, it is all usually sorted in just 1 day of waiting in an office. A Canadian man who was getting a liquor license for his Hostel went through the procedure with me. 4 Hours of waiting, 4 minutes filling in a form, 4 seconds of stamps, and 48$USD gets you your license for a year.

Its disappointing that nobody is optimistic about this. This is something that I have been working towards for quite some time now, and I am not just some dreamer. I'm 22, and have never gotten a handout in my life, I've worked so many jobs for so long and so hard to get the money I have together.

Other people with tons of experience (expats who own hotels etc) have said to me, yes go for it. They have said that with this much money I can put together something pretty good. I'd love to hear from any expats who might have been in the same boat as myself once upon a time. thanks!

WaterSprite thanks for the link, thats more like what I was looking for. :)
 
I'd stay away from Cetral America...too much crime. Guatamala and Nicaragua especially! (have lived there and I know)...Belize is ok tho. I think you should take 3k of your money and go on a fact finding mission, I would be worried you'd get fleeced in some of the countries you mention as there is a fair bit of crime...the kind that authorities overlook for a cut. Your dream is great but you need to know everything about the place you decide on and nobody here can do that for you...With that ammount of money would you not go somewhere warm in Europe...Crete, or the Croatian coast...where you would have the protection of laws that most solicitors can get a handle on? There are so many Brazilians in Europe who cant get work at home...WHY? Also travel and tourism is down worldwide with the recession....I have lived in Central America and you need to understand that the legal protection that we see as a right here within the EU and Ireland is not the standard in Central and South America...Did you know that it is legal to carry a machetti in some of these countries? Go, explore and think long and hard. And dont take too much cash and be sure not to carry you valuables in anything that is not bound directly to you (Bum bag etc..) REALLY!
 
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Ahh mate I am so so jealous!!! I would love to do this!

Forget what the domemongers say they are merely jealous middle aged who once had a dream but did nothing about it...

If you were to come home and invest the cash into property it would dwindle to nothing with a decade of poor growth ahead of us. So if it doesn't work out for you over there you may lose some of your money but you are young enough to do it, learn from the experience and make some cash again.

As someone 8 years older than you with hindsight I strongly recommend you take the opportunity before you get stuck in the corporate grind as an employee.

Can't recommend any places in SA but recall an American who set up a B&B in Puerto Escondido, Mexico. He had it made perfect, courtyard with communal eating area, decentish rooms, own organic smallholding and he absolutely loved it. Got a good recommendation in Lonely Planet and Rough Guide and travellers flocked to the place...

Thats what life is about! Once you set up let us all know the place, got to get away from this misserable place!

Out of interest can you post some typical costs in euros for living out in SA. i.e. how much a beer is, accommodation, food, etc? Looking at taking a lengthy trip soon! Cheers.

Best of luck and GO FOR IT!!!
 
I'm Not jealous or middle aged and I have many dreams that I also pursue...I am cautious now. I have experienced some nasty things in the very places you are targeting and you are young and need to know that these places can be very dangerous.

You should also know that when you go to these places in central and south American your color will indicate to people that you are AMERICAN before your speech (etc) indicates that you are not; There is a lot of anger in central and south america towards Americans. I am sure that you are well able but I also know personally people who were well able...and things didnt go so well. Stay on the beaten tracks and it'll be great...just take a bit of cynicism with your malaria pill!
 
i'd keep an eye on the lonelyplanet thorntree forum on south america, keep an eye on places where people are going and perhaps complaining about a lack of decent places to eat or drink and then visit there and weigh up your options. good luck with it am very jealous.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forum.jspa?forumID=22

ps don't think people are being overly negative just pointing out possible problems
 
Whilst I don't doubt that there are very dodgy parts / countries in South America isn't it a bit sensational to tarnish a whole continent with the same brush?!

There are parts of Europe I wouldn't touch as an investment where as others I feel very comfortable to invest / live in.

Times have moved on and whilst South America has its problems as well as its corruption I am sure there are some excellent places to open a bar and live in.
 
Thanks for the advice guys.
Thanks, but I really don't need basic advice about life out here, and I know what the countries here are like, been here for some years now, and no, never been mistaken for an american.

But thanks anyways, yes I have been looking at the TTF, some good insights into the travellers itineraries etc on there.
 
You should consider colombia (really!). Not many tourist go there yet but they will in the future as it has loads to offer. If you're after the lifestyle rather than making loads of money it could be a very good option as prices are low at the moment.

You should spent a few weeks there to check it out, if you haven't already done so

Security has improved a lot over the last few years and is not a problem in the most populated places in country - just stay away from bogota
 
Suppleness, hat off to you for following your dream!! I really admire your drive and ambition. Hope it all goes great for you. I've got 16 years on you and regret a lot of opportunities I missed because I thought about it for so long before acting. This year is the one where I'm going to take a few risks (within reason as I now have a wife and daughter to consider) but I'm no longer going to look back and say 'Wish I'd done that at the time..' and nor should you. Hence I'm involved in all sorts of speculation as we get into 2009!

I've got a contact in Quito for you if you are considering Ecquador. Local guy who we know now for a few years and consider totally reliable and honest. He won't know much about bars but he might be able to help with the red-tape since he's well up there socially shall we say.
 
Does it have to be south America or would you consider Central America, the yuccatan in Mexico i have always thought would be a reasonable bet,plenty happening and is really nice, and Costa Rica also has alot going for it.visited these areas a graet many times including Guatemala and Nicaragua and never felt threatened at any time if that is a issue.
 
I really admire what you want to do and wish you all the best

i think its a good idea to just visit the country you are interested in for a few weeks before makiing any decisions to see how things work. I did this before i moved to thailand and its lucky i did because thailand must be the most difficult place on the planet for a foreigner to start a business

Be sure to let us know how you get on and good luck on yor adventure
 
OK looks like you've done some basic legwork. And enthusiasm will make up for a lot. Here's some unsolicited advice form a potential guest that I have gained in many years of travelling (I still go backpacking even at my age). Please feel free to ignore it or use it. These may be obvious to you, so apologies in advance if I'm insulting your intelligence. But you'd be amazed how many people seem unable to think these simple things through before they commit serious cash.

Like any start up business, you'll need to concentrate on cash flow. If you have a choice of building 20 rooms and a bar, start with the restaurant/bar and add the rooms to it. The highest margin you'll likely make is going to be on selling alcoholic drinks. I've seen people want to build the 'perfect resort' from scratch so they build the rooms first. But then they could not get any guests until the entire resort was finished and went bust before they could establish themselves. Also if you add rooms as you go you can tailor them to the guests you are actually getting (do you need one more cheap 8-bunk room or three more mid-priced twins?) A Swiss guy in the Philippines I recently stayed with built his dive resort this way over 5 years. As for food, does South America really need another pizza restaurant?? Use some imagination please :)

I'm pretty convinced that an existing business will be too expensive for you to buy. The value creation is when you establish the business and get the name known. People looking to sell are usually 'retiring' and want to get as much out of their investment as possible. They're usually not in a hurry to sell either.

Get your hooks out into the local community asap. I saw one African/Belgian guy returned home and built a luxury hotel. You'd think the locals would be happy that there was a source of income on their doorstep. They weren't: that source of Western income turned their daughters into prostitutes. Caused him huge problems in the long term.

Like any business, you need a marketing plan. Make sure people know where you are. One of the best source of info I use for booking backpackers is other backpackers (including customers, owners and staff.) I rarely take a Lonely Planet type book any more. Waste of space compared to word of mouth IMHO.

People need to be able to get to you. Make sure you are on a recognised 'route' because it is amazing how many people travel along the same logical path, like a major bus route, or the "Inca Trail". Look for example for the local equivalent of a travel organisation like Green Turtle / Magic Bus in New Zealand, Baz Bus In South Africa. Consider even offering free accomodation for the bus driver on these routes if your place is big enough. Alternatively make sure the local taxi/ moped drivers know how to get to you. Many times I've been told downright lies by some driver who has a friend in the business that my intended destination is closed / has burned down / spontaneously exploded etc. A few free beers/ preferential rates for locals is appreciated. That's life. There's the local price and the tourist price. Every bar needs its locals.

Go out of your way to ensure that other backpacker hostels upstream and downstream on the route know you personally, and swap advert flyers with them. In many places there's even a service that does this for you, but it doesn't negate the need for personal attention to what you might actually consider as your natural competitors. In a "new area" you need to work hard and club together to create that buzz to establish the whole route for the benefit of all hostel owners along the route. Remember that your hostel or bar will be one stop in someone else's much longer tour. Try to make it stand out rather than aiming at building another "hostel-bar-pizzeria-etc with the rest."

Make sure your hostel or bar is always clean. Doesn't matter how cheap or expensive a place is, people expect to be able to use the kitchen of have a pee in comfort. Make sure you have your fridge etiquette clearly in place. Build secure storage in each room. A good solid cupboard that a backpacker can put their own padlock on. Similarly, keep the bedding simple. Sheet sleeping bags so they are easy to change and hygenic.

You also really need a unique selling point: "A beach bar" on its own just simply isn't good enough any more. "A beach bar built around an S-shaped palm tree on a beach in the Pacific Ocean with dancing on the sand to the latest European tunes at a full moon party" is something else entirely.

Another friend of mine runs a lodge with yoga retreats. She has a matching kitchen to offer a cleansing experience. Sounds hippy, but pulls in the new age women in droves. Another guy I know does horse riding. Would work well in Argentina: the whole Gaucho package. At the other end of the spectrum you could be a jumping off point for an established destination like a volcano trip/ waterfall/ whale watching etc. If you can also include your own (mini bus) trips to difficult to reach local attractions like wine tasting tours in Chile that'll pull people in too. But this is probably going to be a pretty crowded space already. The message is simple: you need to carve out your own niche.

As for locations: Mexico will be too expensive I suspect. I have friends who work & travel a lot in Chile. They swear by Argentina as the best destination for travel in South America. Peru has many hidden treasures and is up and coming. Another guy I met in South Africa walked all the way from Port Elizabeth to Durban (1000Km) and picked out the best beach on the way for the location of his hostel, so that's anohter approach to finding a place. I also know a guy who lives in Bolivia and he loves that. He dedided on the basis of medium large city, low crime, decent transport links, no diseases, climate, and the cost of a building plot. Doesn't narrow it down much for you I know. But be sure to take the time to work out what are your criteria for choosing somewhere and do your own research first before picking a location.

If you've got diving e.g. in Honduras, Belize, Costa Rica, you'll get a different class of guests. It takes a lot more setting up, and is a lot more capital intensive, but you can charge a wedge more.

Here's some links for you, so that you can have a look at their business approach and copy the best bits.
[broken link removed]

http://www.bbh.co.nz/
http://www.bazbus.com/
http://www.greentoadbus.com/

http://www.hostelbookers.com/
http://www.travelindependent.info/america-south.htm
(template business plans)
 
some fantastic advice there martin, i have a very good friend who has traveled a hell of alot, he has been to over 100 countries around Asia and south and central america and he tells me he loves bolivia the most.

apparently bolivia is still super cheap
 
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