Actually old chap in either case it is foul play, punishable under the laws of the game. A bit like saying "Oh sorry, I meant to kick him in the ribs but kicked him in the head because my aim or timing was bad."
If Hartley had connected with O'Brien's back and not his head it wouldn't have been a red card.
I've named two international players with appalling disciplinary records recognised hit men, who happen to be English, but fantasize away that I'm motivated by anti-English sentiment. Your choice of a Jihadist beheading for comparison's sake is in extremely poor taste. You'd wonder what former or current imperialist / colonists' actions would prompt Jihadists to want to behead people.
Ah,so ISIS behead fellow Muslims because of Britain's past colonial actions ? Bit of a stretch that one old sport.
I don't understand.
Hartley's ban was reduced by a week because he admitted the offence.Do try to keep up.
With the likes of Hartley & other ill-disciplined English Hit-men on the field guess what'll be cracking? Not disciplinary whips for sure, but Irish skulls.
I admire your innocence in thinking Ireland or indeed any other rugby team don't possess any dirty players.Sweet really.Especially when viewed through green-tinted spectacles.
Hartley's nose is already very snotty and his violent history should have him ruled him out, but we'll see. Traditionally the Lions tour was seen as a reward for the best players in the four nations. I wonder what the current criteria are.
Traditionally the squad for a Lions tours has been picked to provide the best opportunity to beat Southern Hemisphere opposition.'Twas ever thus.I don't think anyone including me is arguing that Hartley is a saint but the reality is rugby is a contact sport where violence is legally nuanced.
Paul O'Connell was sent off for a strike to the face of Jonathan Thomas in similar circumstances when Munster were playing Ospreys.I've named two international players with appalling disciplinary records recognised hit men, who happen to be English, but fantasize away that I'm motivated by anti-English sentiment. Your choice of a Jihadist beheading for comparison's sake is in extremely poor taste. You'd wonder what former or current imperialist / colonists' actions would prompt Jihadists to want to behead people.
Paul O'Connell was sent off for a strike to the face of Jonathan Thomas in similar circumstances when Munster were playing Ospreys.
Donnacha Ryan was cited for eye gouging.
Cian Healy has been suspended for punching, as well as other offenses.
Hartley is a scumbag and the England team and shirt are diminished as long as he is on the team but we aren't exactly perfect either.
Hartley is in a class of his own as a scumbag. My point is that nobody is perfect but I wasn't saying that other players, Irish or English, are anywhere near as bad. Northampton do seen to have a broader problem with discipline.Agreed.
Every team has its scumbags.Ireland included.
But Hartley's misdemeanours will be quickly forgotten if he leads the Lions to victory.
Personally I hope its Rory Best.
I'm now convinced you're being deliberately obtuse. I have said repeatedly that I started this thread about one English player, El Supremo of dangerous, illegal and violent play, Dylan Hartley, and I gave an honourable mention to the Doctor of Cynical Conduct, sneaky blows and late hits, Courtney Lawes. I didn't mention any Irish player other than as the target for Hartley's cowardly violence and certainly never discussed any Italians. I did give NZ a bit of a back-hander rather than a shoulder charge to the head but that was to illustrate the kind of play I abhor. As for your whining remark, I'm not a player, either Italian or Irish, but I am heartened to see you taken on board my previous bully boys / hit-men remarks about certain English players. That's progress, the next step is to get them banned.So red-carded Irish players is " whataboutery " but the plucky Irish lads on the receiving end of aggression are being targeted because rugby is this country's 4th sport ? You're moving into the realms of fantasy now.
I don't recall Italian players whining about the bully boys.They give as good as they get.
I'm now convinced you're being deliberately obtuse. I have said repeatedly that I started this thread about one English player, El Supremo of dangerous, illegal and violent play, Dylan Hartley, and I gave an honourable mention to the Doctor of Cynical Conduct, sneaky blows and late hits, Courtney Lawes. I didn't mention any Irish player other than as the target for Hartley's cowardly violence and certainly never discussed any Italians. I did give NZ a bit of a back-hander rather than a shoulder charge to the head but that was to illustrate the kind of play I abhor. As for your whining remark, I'm not a player, either Italian or Irish, but I am heartened to see you taken on board my previous bully boys / hit-men remarks about certain English players. That's progress, the next step is to get them banned.
Yes, god forbid that a man can reform his behavior and change, no he should be judged on what he did as a teenager for the rest of his life.
There's another odd wrinkle, why should Hartley's or any other thug's home union get to adjudicate on punishments? Why not a panel of disinterested senior officials from neutral countries who could call medical evidence as to the seriousness of any injuries sustained by the target of the violence? Starting at an automatic one year suspension and working up, with fines and victim compensation payable by the perpetrator and his club / country would certainly make selecting serial psychos like Hartley a risky proposition. Fines and suspensions to be doubled for each succeeding offence.The RFU,rather than a barstool TMO,deemed Hartley's tackle reckless rather than malicious.
I don't know how they feel.I'm sure the victims and their families of his enforcing feel the same . . .
I don't know how they feel.
He did serve a year for his crimes though so the State considers the debt paid.
In much the same way anyone who serves their sentence should have a chance to build a future after reforming their behavior.In much the same way that Hartley's slate will be wiped clean after his six week ban
You need to take a few deep breaths and relax, it is Christmas after all.I think the key is the reforming though. There is no evidence that Hartley is reforming his behaviour, unless becoming more sneaky and underhanded with his violent conduct counts as reforming. I don't think being a serving or former police officer is any kind of recommendation. Hillsborough, Birmingham 6, Guilford 4, minister toppled by lying coppers, racism rife, sexism commonplace, child abuse & abusers in blue uniforms, and so on, "a policeman's lot is not a happy one" now that we've found out. Oh, but any barrel is bound to have one bad one - how about orchards' full, all dressed in blue?
You need to take a few deep breaths and relax, it is Christmas after all.
Hartley is a thug, ditto Wade Dooley and not forgetting Delon "Cheap-shot" Armitage. Sorry for coming late to this ruck, maybe I should start swinging for someone. Oh no, that should be left to the "professional" himself.
Mathepacs point is well made, Hartley hasn't reformed and the defense of Hartley is pure comedy gold. Surely a pilot show on Dave is forthcoming. Might run for several episodes.
As for Hartley leading the Lions to victory, please pray its at another sport or leisure activity. I doubt it would be at Chess anyway.
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