Global warming - Ski property

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proon

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I am pondering whether to invest in an Alpine apartment in Austria (off plan). Other apartments in the development have just been completed and sold on with investors making a tidy 10% return for a 12 month investment. The resort is only at 950m but has slopes at 1,200m and higher and there is snow there at the moment.

Reports and projections suggest that the effects of global warming on the Alpine ski industry will become worse in the coming years, should I take this into account and is it foolhardy to even think about this investment? I have a 3-5 year plan, although you are capital gains tax exempt if you hang on to the property for 10yrs. I guess a quick off the plan turn around is also an option.

Lord knows I don't want to be left with a worthless property, but if my plan is short term, should I be concerned?
 
Environmentalists are basing a lot of their ott claims on computer models and programs. However, they cannot be entirely accurate. Like how can they factor in the role of clouds and the heat absorbancy of the seas. I remain sceptical.

If you're plan is short term, i wouldn't be too concerned about lack of snow. I think this winter was generally milder across Europe, but i wouldn't put this down to global warming.

http://www.terradaily.com/2006/060129205612.h1lii4pp.html

- last winter was cold one, this year was less cold. Just coincidence, not global warming as some might have you fooled.

With a short term investment, for me, i wouldn't factor in the weather when making a decision.
 
Unless you are planning on hanging around for the next 200 years you shouldn't have to worry too much about --- Forecast is for a 0.3 degree rise in average temps every decade !!!!
 
I believe there are hidden charges in maintaing property in Austria-compulsary maintence aind inspection etc. Check all out.
You have not said which resort-some resorts have better rental potential than others. Ski Chalet/Appartment rental in Austria in not as developed as it is in France, where there is huge supply and demand. Check out potential-for Austrian demand and Foreign.
While you may become exempt for CGT in Austria, you will be liable to pay CGT in Ireland (if resident here), as you must pay this on your worldwide income. If you pay in Austria then you dont have to pay here-unless the AT amount is lower of course.
 
To think that all those thousands of climate scientists were wrong because they forgot to include the figures for "heat absorbancy of the seas"! I bet they're kicking themselves now.

The fact that you're even considering the issue shows it is relevent, as you won't be the only investor to do so. You might say "well I'm getting out in 4/5 years so it's not relevent", but it may be relevent because whoever you're selling it to may be looking further into the future. There must be some research available as to the projected impact of global warming on ski resorts available somewhere, I'd go find that and see what sort of impact they're projecting.
 
The UN published a report on the effect of Global warming on the ski industry in 2003. The prognosis for some resorts in AT was not so good.
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so, Europe freezed over last year and due to global warming this year there's barely enough snow to get your toes cold. Global warming is a long term problem, as Ned said,
Unless you are planning on hanging around for the next 200 years you shouldn't have to worry too much about --- Forecast is for a 0.3 degree rise in average temps every decade !!!!
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The report suggests that, for nine Australian ski resorts, a rise of 0.3 degrees C would, by 2030, only bring into question the viability of the Mount Baw Baw site. However, if temperatures climb by 0.6 degrees C by the same date, only five resorts are likely to be unaffected.
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Firstly, it's 20 years down the line and to say that such evidence is convincing is ridiculous. I mean "bring into question the viability" of 1 resort. Catastrophic indeed. And that's if we continue polluting as we do. People have been made aware of the damage that has been done, however little or big it is and even Dubya is coming 'round to introducing laws to combat global warming. Therefore, with a good attitude to combating pollution, etc. i think the effects of global warming may not be seen for a long time.
 
Scientists sure what would they know aren't 9 out 10 statistics are made up anyway. It boggles my mind that some people think global warming isn't an issue but that's a whole other discussion.

Back to the topic in hand I just wonder if low altitude ski property could potentially drop in price due to infrequent snow would it make investing in high altitude property a good bet as the price of the property could possibly rocket in the long term due to the perceived better potential for snow and more people booking ski holidays on the basis of resort altitude. Just curious what people think.
 
The resort is Rauris, about 30miles from Salzburg, airport well serviced from the UK and Ireland (180 flights per week). As far as I know it is a resort that is good for beginners and intermmediate skiers. The complex will have a spa and a 'wellness' centre when completed. There is a rental deal in the pipeline with holiday company TUI, the owners of Thomson, Crystal etc to take the complex for the 13 week ski season. I haven't been yet but plan to go over in the coming weeks.

No doubt all you budding Irish Winter Olympic down hillers out there will say this is pure a beginners resort. But then you were a beginner once and everyone has to start somewhere!
 
Don't agree. As a former sceptic I've since done tons of reading and I'm pretty convinced we are in the poop. EG check out the Stern Report and there is lots more. Perception is reality and if consumers across Europe reckon that Ski holidays are getting risky with less snow, for shorter periods and at higher altitudes you may suffer. This is what is happening this year. Snow, which normally hits Southren Russia like clockwork each November 10th top 12th hasn't arrived as of yesterday. Tempretures normally -16c at this point are today +10c.

The previous comments , unhappily, are more wishful thinking than factual and are just the type of misthinking I had too.

The biggest threat to GW isn't from developed regions like Europe and the USA which will react, ( the latter being too slow due to the influence of oil and auto industry power) but from "Chindia" ( China & India) who, playing catch up with us, are highly unlikely to be able to curtail their bellowing economies even if they wanted to, so the GW momentum is going to be extremely hard to slow down - whatever about reversing.

In short your Austrian Ski pad could be ruined by dozens of cities and heavy industry thousands of miles away in China. If you want to get a good return on property why not try the baltics, the UK or N.Ire?
 
Luternau said:
While you may become exempt for CGT in Austria, you will be liable to pay CGT in Ireland (if resident here), as you must pay this on your worldwide income. If you pay in Austria then you dont have to pay here-unless the AT amount is lower of course.
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Will I still be liable here even though there is a tax treaty between Ireland and Austria and that it is Austria that is giving the tax exemption?
 
The Olympics are being held at a relatively low altitude resort in Canada that has suffered from variable snowfalls as recently as last year although I've heard they are getting a lot more snow this year. When it's bad resorts frequently use snow machines to get the main trails open. Its a risk but only one of many - it could be a nice beachfront property in a few years if things get really bad :) nice hedge.

The most ominious sign for global warming to me is when countries are trying to stake their claim to the Arctic region in advance of it becoming accessible in summer within the next forty years based on some projections.
 
I don't claim to be an expert, but if you watched the Al Gore documentary on global warming you may have second thoughts about investing in a ski property. I was in the South of France earlier in the year (Nov) and the weather there was 18-20 degrees in the middle of the day. Locals were saying it was much hotter than normal. A snowboarder we went for dinner with was saying the ski season was starting very late this year and they had one of the warmest Novembers in year. This could all be a mad coincidence. But I would definately do a lot of research before buying a ski property these days.
 
DirtyH2O said:
When it's bad resorts frequently use snow machines to get the main trails open. .
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Unfortunately snow machines won't work at any more than about -2C,any warmer and the water just sprays out as rain.

The investor's concern with ski resorts though is not just about GW, although that could make them worse as an investment. The issue is short season rental, although all good salesmen will swear that you get summer rentals from hikers and tourists. You don't.

The higher the resort usually the longer the season; conversely the lower resorts in Austria get whatever summer business is going, but it is insignificant and just serves if anything to compensate for the shorter ski season in the lower resorts. Summer tourism in Austria is largely around the lakes; the higher altitude purpose-built resorts are soulless and don't do any summer business.

As with any short let seasonal business, beware of projections based on anything other than the main season. Ski property generally isn't in the top layer of investments, and the global warming issue is simply another reason to be careful of it.
 
Looking specifically at Rauris as it's in the Crystal brochure, at 25km it is very much a first week skier resort. So it's up against Andorra, Ski welt area, Livigno and Bulgaria etc, all of which have the advantage of keeping the 2nd and subseqent people in a mixed group occupied.
I notice that it is the only resort in Crystal brochure which throws in "free ski pass, ski hire and lessons" which implies that they may be having difficulties filling rooms.
 
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