Gardai want to close clubs at 1.30am

Re: Don't agree

Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh I hate that crap phrase "stealth tax"! Tabloid muck used by moaners. How the hell can the plastic bag levy be a "stealth tax", its not as if it is a sneaky charge on your shopping bill. It fair and its out in the open, and all you have to do is bring along five big eco bags everytime you do your weekly/monthly shopping. Not hard at all, and since it was introduced how many plastics bags have you seen thrown idly around the place. A hell of a lot less than there was.

Anyway, all this is going off the original topic

Re: .

What people are encouraged to do is to bring your "own" plastic bags, or bring your "longer lasting" plastic bags, but it's a weak attempt to reduce the amount of plastic bags in circulation.

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Has the plastic bag tax not dramatically reduced the quantity of plastic in operation? This was no weak attempt. This was a very strong and successful attempt.

It has also made consumers much more environmentally aware.

And why call it a stealth tax? Stealth suggests acting in a covert way or disguising a tax as something else. There is nothing covert about this. In fact, the government have promoted it widely. Likewise with bin charges. There is nothing hidden about them.

Brendan

getting back on Topic, I am also of the opinion that if opening hours were abolished / greatly extended it would give the responsibility back to the people. bear with me for a minute and I will try to explain why.

I like many love to go for a few pints and it is true that nearing closing time you do see the mad rush up to he bar to get in a round. (In most pubs they flash the lights to encourage people to do this) I've done it myself, sometimes you are just not ready to go home.

I have also the pleasure of attending some events over the years (namely Fleadh Ceoils and The Irish Open) where by the pubs / Clubs were "unoffically" told by the Gardai to stay open all night. this was so you did not have a huge amount of people congregating on the street together. these events were by in large trouble free, why? because people stayed in the pubs until they had enough and went home.

not turfed out at 1.30 with thousands more and left to fight over taxis and quarter pounders

Re: .

I agree with you it made consumers environmentally aware, but the following points form my opinion on why it is weak:

Consumers can still purchase these plastic bags (little devils, they are), why are they still available if everyone knows they are an environmental hazard?
Thousands upon thousands of these plastic bags are still being purchased every week.

Consumers have to purchase the alternative, "big eco bags", why? Why penalise consumers for being environmentally aware? Why put the burden on the consumer of having these bags to hand? Is the profit made from the purchase of these bags directed back to aid the environment? There is money made from the sale of these bags. There is money made from the levy on plastic bags.

Why not assist the consumer by providing him/her with paper bags for free, and from recycled paper? Create jobs from it, even?

It is not enough to make the consumer environmentally aware, while still giving him the option to harm the environment. Ban the plastic bags for good. But what about the money?

Re: .

My cupboard is now full of re-usable carrier bags instead of the old thin type. I try to remember to bring a couple of bags with me, but nearly always seem to end up buying the re-usable ones.

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Don't blame the tax - Blame yourself. The problem isn't with the tax. The problem is that you can't be bothered to re-use your bags. Sheesh....

Rainyday, human nature is human nature. People can and do forget. Disgusted may be more aware of the environment and practicing green than most but if he is a forgetful person (which I definitely am) he has to purchase more plastic bags, reusable or otherwise.

My point is why should he have to purchase plastic bags in the first place, rather than be handed paper bags to carry his goods home?

You’d be fairly pissed off every time you got takeaway coffee if you had to bring your own cup, wouldn’t you?

Re: .

In the supermarkets a few years ago you would have seen people putting each bottle of coke or whatever in a plastic bag and then putting that bag in another bag. Then the bagged apples and bagged oranges would go in another bag and the wrapped biscuits and wrapped bread in another and so on.

Almost every single transaction involved the issuing of at least one bag and of course the weekly shops involved 15 or 20 bags per transaction.

Now I only see the occasional shopper buying bags. This has definitely reduced the number of plastic bags in circulation.

One good side effect is that I no longer get people behind the counter giving me weird looks and insisting that I take a bag when I tell them that I don't need a bag.

z

Because (afaik) paper bags are expensive and most supermarkets wouldn't be bothered paying for them in the quantities they would need. They're not the most practical solution for large amounts of heavy shopping and people would be taking two or three bags for one bottle of coke etc.

Many newsagents do offer paper bag.
Most clothes shops do use paper bags.

This is not an issue for the government, it's the shops who choose what type of bags to offer. Also, as far as I remember the 15c collected on each plastic bag does go in to a specific environment fund and not just into the general pool.

By the way, if you use a car when going shopping you can either leave some bags in the boot (whole days in between shopping trips to remember to put them back in the boot) or make use of the boxes many supermarkets will now make available to you to pack your shopping into.

But we really should get back to the original question now

I have big problems with the way people in this country drink/behave when drunk and can see where people are coming from if they think that if the pubs/clubs are left open till all hours people will stay in them drinking till all hours. However, I am firmly against the idea of everything being shut at 1.30. I also hate the constant cries of nanny state but this is moving us in that direction I feel.

Re: .

Thrifty - do paper bags just appear out of the blue, or do they cost money to manufacture, transport and store. If they are to be free then who should absorb the cost ?

z

OK........back to the 'drinking ban'.
I go out in Dublin every weekend and never see trouble. Am I wearing blinkers or something????

Depends where you go out. And possibly also what you consider "trouble" to be. Outright serious violence? General noisiness? And so on and so on.

what you consider "trouble" to be

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If someone aint hurting other people or property, they aint causing trouble.

I saw someone a few weeks ago telling some passing revellers to keep it quiet (around 9pm). I thought this was out of order, it was'nt a residential district and was lateish (no kids about)

plastic bags

I used to use plastic bags as pedal bin liners ( more than big enough for my needs ) thus getting two uses out of each bag.

Now I have to buy pedal bin liners ( bigger than I need ) and only get one use out of them

I dont see how this helps the environment



PB

Re: plastic bags

This is now two topics in one...how to get this back on topic?
!
Could we place receptacles full of old plastic carrier bags around towns near night clubs for use as sick bags by drunk but still socially aware drinkers who could then bring them home and empty them into their composter?

No? ah well, it was just an idea...

Now I have to buy pedal bin liners ( bigger than I need ) and only get one use out of them

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Why do you do that? Just wash out the bin every few weeks, or stop keeping it in the house.

Re: plastic bags

PB - as purple asks - why do you use them at all ? The normal state of a bin is not sparkly clean. It is supposed to have rubbish in it. I don't think it should degenerate to being a health risk, but a clean out every few weeks should normally be enough.

I know some people (not me) have adopted a system of multiple bins - one for the really messy stuff using plastic bags, and one for the dry stuff which doesn't need to be bagged since it is dry and not contaminated with anything. They did this directly as a result of not getting all those free bin liners from the shops and because they didn't want to pay (as you do) for buying bin liners.

z

Re: plastic bags

If you object to the push - likely to come into force this week - to have nightclubs in Ireland close at 1.30 am from now on (i.e. bar shut, music over, get out, go home) go to

www.petitiononline.com/ni...ition.html

and sign the petition/add a comment. Please forward this on if you know anyone else who might care.

As far as I am concerned Ireland while it has changed has not grown up. A country that does not treat it's grown ups as grown ups will never have citizens that behave responsibly. If you were to treat secondary students as you did primary students, do you think they would grow up and behave responsibly?
This countries leaders will have to start acting like leaders and take the hard decisions.
Or else treat us all like children as they are doing now and those of us with a free mind will leave, and the rest can continue to be tucked up in their bed at 1.30 while their moral gaurdians rule secure in yellow Ireland.

.

It's just another nail in the coffin.

I think I'd prefer to live in North Korea - there's probably more freedom there.

Just for Purple and Zag

Oh Dear,

Taking a look at whats in PBs bin is none to pleasant

peelings apple, spud, carrot etc., peach stones, teabags apple cores, chicken bones.....

Gets tastie after a few days in the kitchen ( I just about produce enough to fill one plastic bag a week )

BTW if you are every in need of a lot of bags for your shopping buy a roll of PB liners !

Now back to the topic - er, what was it Mickey Mack ? or the Guards ?


PB

Clubs

I thought the solution had been identified to all this trouble around closing time...spread the closing times of the clubs!

Do it on a rotational basis, and do it randomly so the punters don't all gravitate to specific places they know close later.

Good idea or not?

Clubs

I'm a bit confused both by this discussion and by articles in The IT over the past few days which report the Gardai want 20 of the biggest (this seems to be the significant point!!) clubs in the centre of Dublin to close at 3.30 instead of 4.30 on the grounds that such a late closing is an abuse of the theatre license laws, as these clubs are not "theatres" in the sense of staging plays. It is a loophole which is being used for commercial gain.

There is an issue about the conflict between personal rights and freedoms and the broader issue of public order. The Gardai take a bit of a thumping on this forum but their task is to keep order. From my own observation dozens of planeloads of revellers set off from Stanstead alone on Thursdays bound for Dublin and what is now referred to as the "hottest club scene in Europe" on no-frills airlines and cheap weekend hotel packages. They are off their own patch and disinhibited. Add large crowds, hot clubs, frenetic music and too much to drink.........and then expect law and order? C'mon!