Loki said:No change of use it is still residential property. Change of use is a graden into a car park space or a house into a business. A residential house into a residential property requires no change of use. Unless a city official told you that I'll beleive the people in the planning department who told me.
Loki said:You don't have to agree with me.
I see what people are saying and I understand it and I would say I understand it better than them in most cases. People assuming to know why things are happening and not looking at the whole picture doesn't lead to a rounded view.
I think you missed the point. People are saying house prices can't keep going up. I say they can because of two reasons.
1) The houses will no longer be lived and owned by single families. .
2) Supply and demand close to amenities will keep property going up in many areas.
Splitting house is just a natural evelution of that. As is renting in areas not normally rented. I live in an area as close to Dublin as Rathgar except Northside are you going to speculate the economics of Ireland about the house prices and development of the area or what is there and happening. People are spliting the houses and I gave you the type of house it is happening to. Are you just going to deny this as happening and state some economists theory of what might happen instead? 5% on my road and growing versus a belief and a reading of signs of property crash revelations. People on my road in their 90s are dying their children are selling to developers or renting out the property. A market change why refuse to look at these details?
You are still on the assumption that everybody will be buying. Say if prices keep going up and income doesn't why are you assuming people must buy? Why won't the super normal property ownership drop? Maybe the nature of the property will give. Maybe the prices will give. Maybe the prices of certain areas or distances will give only. Maybe a combination will happen is what I say and if you want to buy you can do if you do so correctly.
Why do peope keep thinking prices will drop and set of a huge price crash? It is such a simple belief for a really complex issue. THe economists have been wrong for 10 years in my eyes but people will except 6 years. The people fighting this arguement won't consider any other additional information that will and does effect the market. I know the arguments and I have heard them better explained than many here. I have not really said they are untrue but I certainly do point out where people are making assumptions. People are making it a belief like religion not a scientific analysis of the facts and possible out comes intead they state it like fact. 6 years of being wrong how can people defend that by saying they will be eventually right. What would you say if in 4 years it doesn't happen? A decade of economists being wrong or a decade of over priced property. THe drop would need to be something like 200%+ to be an issue for somebody 6 years ago in Dublin at least plus the rent paid over that time.
hmmm said:On one side of this discussion we have statistics, economics, anecdotal evidence and the laws of supply and demand. On the other we have someone who believes that some sort of magic house splitting arrangement will prop up house prices (that's a new line to me) and nothing else.
If I could figure out a way to leverage myself into a position which relies on a fall in house prices over the next 2-5 years I would.
Loki said:THe drop would need to be something like 200%+ to be an issue for somebody 6 years ago in Dublin at least plus the rent paid over that time.
I concur, fair play to Loki for fighting his/her corner, but it's amazing that no-one else will give him/her a hand - is it my imagination or is there not a property investment section out there? I would have thought that if any of those guys could spare a few moments from their pursuit of a global property empire they could give us some of their thoughts.A number of us have been in a long dialogue with Loki on the direction of the market. Is there anyone else who believes growth is still very likely and can put forward reasons why? It has been a good debate so far and it would be good to have other readers involved
Loki said:As for planning permission Dublin City Council told me otherwise and their planning regulations govern where I live. Even if I was misinformed it would not be difficult to get planning.
I used to work in the planning department and my father did for 25 years. I think I might know a little more on the subject than you. I can assure you certain things are easy to get no matter who complains. Widening a drive way for example warrants little problem. There are concerns but very few and easily done. What are the rules and what the reality is are different. How much involvement do you have in property and construction? As I mentioned pre63 building also what do you know about the exemption there?extopia said:Loki, I know this issue is only part of your argument but if you want to be credible, you need to get the basics right.
Loki said:I used to work in the planning department and my father did for 25 years. I think I might know a little more on the subject than you.
Loki said:What are the rules and what the reality is are different. How much involvement do you have in property and construction?
As I mentioned pre63 building also what do you know about the exemption there?
My last response on the subject is very simple. You are wrong it can and is being done with little on no hassle. You don't need to beleive me on how it gets done but I beleive it will happen more. I know what can be done from direct experence. There are ways and means which I will not go into other than to say it isn't bribery as many would assume just a bending of rules. I gave an example of house that such work could be done. It is a very small part of my arguement and is a technical detail that is insugnifficant. No further need for discussion on it.extopia said:I realise that planning issues are not the central thrust of this thread but I have to respond.
Another popular statement of the property pumpers. People predicting lower prices are apparently "begrudgers" or "jealous" etc. Personally I don't need a property crash for any personal or financial reasons. I've owned property as well as virtually all other asset classes. Currently I am ZERO directly exposed to property, just as I am to US$ or US$ assets.Loki said:People here sound like those without property or unhappy with what they have so is this why you are all so negative?
Loki said:It is a very small part of my arguement and is a technical detail that is insugnifficant. No further need for discussion on it.
JUst becasue it has been said before does not make it untrue. People here have referred to the fact they can't buy and from their view outside the market gives them insight. It is a valid point to ask is that why people here are so negative. Zero direct exposure? Does that mean you live on the streets? According to people here rent is direct link to price so that is a direct enough link. If you live in a house you own you are directly linked. I never mentioned jealousy or begrudgery so you can't accuse me of saying that. It is natural for people to hope things will change to make their life or dreams possible that isn't begrudgery that is hope.walk2dewater said:Another popular statement of the property pumpers. People predicting lower prices are apparently "begrudgers" or "jealous" etc. Personally I don't need a property crash for any personal or financial reasons. I've owned property as well as virtually all other asset classes. Currently I am ZERO directly exposed to property, just as I am to US$ or US$ assets.
If people are so involved why does that not effect those not in the market? I am going to go with the view not everybody is out to get each other and jealous of everybody else but hoping for a sistuation that makes things beter for themselve and probably not understanding how that may negatively effect others. Insensitive or unaware rather than intentionally not looking to punish others or get something from the backs of the bruised.walk2dewater said:Like I said before, many people have excessive emotional and psychological stakes riding on the Irish property market. This is because they are highly leveraged and will face ruin if the market goes against them. It is THEM who begrudge young Irish people cheap property prices. THEY very much need to sell on for higher prices in the future.
No I don't live on the street I live in a very nice, terraced house in the city centre for which I pay 60% of what it would cost to conventional mortgage. I also negotiated a 5% discount of the rent for paying 6mths in advance. If I owned it or had a mortgage on it I'd be directly linked. I have neither. My money is invested elsewhere, outside of property, mainly in, base and precious metal shares, gold bullion, oil/natgas shares and mostly in Cdn$ short-term bonds. Also have some exposure to Japanese shares and India.Loki said:Zero direct exposure? Does that mean you live on the streets? According to people here rent is direct link to price so that is a direct enough link.
I really havent a clue what you're saying, but I generally get the impression you either havent read my posts or are misinterpreting them.Loki said:If you live in a house you own you are directly linked. I never mentioned jealousy or begrudgery so you can't accuse me of saying that. It is natural for people to hope things will change to make their life or dreams possible that isn't begrudgery that is hope.
If people are so involved why does that not effect those not in the market? I am going to go with the view not everybody is out to get each other and jealous of everybody else but hoping for a sistuation that makes things beter for themselve and probably not understanding how that may negatively effect others. Insensitive or unaware rather than intentionally not looking to punish others or get something from the backs of the bruised.
I don't know why you would assume such negitive views are driving peoples' views but most people are connected accross the market through family and friends. Why not have a positive thought for the day on me
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