Fuel Poverty

There are two major differences between 2008 and today.
But firstly, oil reached $140 for a few hours back then, but agitators and media love using the figure.
The 5 day average close was $131. That's a better measure.

So the two big differences.
In 2008, exchange rate was $1.45, last week it was $1.04.

In 2008 average refining cost was $15. Last week it hit $65.

So 2008 = $131/barrel + $15 refining, 159 Litres, $1.45 exchange. Net 63c

2022 = $124/barrel, $65 refining. Exchange $1.05. Net = €1.13
 
Gone are the days of washing by hand it seems.
 
Wilful ignorance? Maybe read the post again. I said consider and promote alternatives first. How is that willfully ignorant?

And let's consider your first example. You may be ignorant to the fact that a large proportion of the staff of the Intel have been working from home for more than 2 years. And while that plant may not be in central Dublin it is well served by public transport.
 
No it doesn't. Maybe read it again.

T McGibney said:
Well if costs the householder/worker more and saves money for the company who employs them, it certainly is good for the latter.
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As we're talking about those in fuel poverty the comment was about lower nett costs for the employee, not the employer.
 
Yes but who decides what mortgage is affordable? Should the couple on €130k not have been more prudent and have less debt? Personal responsibility plays a part as does lifestyle creep. Vulnerable could mean physical frailty also. Elderly people who do not leave their homes require constant heat. Everything is relative.
 
Reading through this thread got me thinking and my observations on this are simply these.
Households are probably more energy consuming than anytime in the history of mankind.
Everyone now has mobile phones that need charging ,computers, multiple in many cases even low income households.
We are "cleaner" ,not necessarily healthier, as we shower more often, we wash our clothes more often and of course we all have more clothes.

Washing machines, tumble dryers ,microwave ovens, double ovens ,large fridge freezers with fresh water filtered are in every household now.

Multiple TVs, cars ,garden tools ,DIY tools the list is endless.

All this energy consumption easily becomes habitual as we get used to it and humans are simple creatures once we taste the good life we are slow to give it up. My home is as guilty as anyone else.

Alternative energy is not the panacea of this but it certainly would help , however the cost, efficiency of solar ,wind energy generation is still prohibitive for the majority ,this is where progress needs to be made and if the cost of getting households generating electricity became more reasonable more households would use it.

Households need the capital cost spread over a reasonable term, excess electricity needs to get back to the grid at a reasonable cost this is an investment in our electricity system that benefits the entire country.

Community energy projects litter the European continent and if nothing else takes small towns and villages either off the grid or certainly reduce the cost of electricity for its inhabitants, here in Ireland we have wind and streams everywhere and could be used for power generation.

Fossil fuels are past tipping point now, and scarcity only drives up prices further so either we are going to read reports on the issue or actually do what's required.
 
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I'm making the point that people on low incomes are less likely to have high energy consuming non-essential items such as Tumble Dryers and so have lower energy costs.
You countered by saying that Tumble Dryers are an essential item.
I pointed out that less than two thirds of households have Tumble Dryers but you seem to still think that they are an essential item.

That's all.
 
Yes, but the older person has that personal responsibility as well. They can trade down to an apartment with a A energy rating and have a nice cash lump sum. What provision did they make for their own future? Should they have been more prudent?
 
newirishman said:
Washing machines and dish washers are significantly more effective and cheaper than any hand job.

Even taking into account the cost of buying.
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That depends on how you use them verses how you wash the dishes. A dishwasher can be cheaper and greener but the real answer is "it depends".
 
They are an essential item in some properties.
Why is a washing machine an essential item if you can get by without it?
Why is central heating an essential item if you can get by without it?
Your list of essential items is entirely subjective, arbitrary and based on your own limited (as is everyones) personal experience.
You even brought in the angle that people on low income wouldn't buy a tumble dryer, ignoring that they are provided by regulations in many rental properties, especially apartments.

You seem to think a tumble dryer is comparable with a foreign holiday or chartering a plane.

If you want to prove your point come up with some real data.
 
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Here's some data;
About a third of households don't have a tumble dryer.
About a third of people don't go on a foreign holiday each year.
95% of households have a washing machine.

I never suggested that a tumble dryer is comparable to chartering a plane. I'm surprised that you didn't understand that.

I'm aware that tumble dryers are provided in rental properties. There's no compulsion to use them if you are finding cash tight. We all have to make an effort to live within our means. That's just part of being an adult.
If you can afford things like a foreign holiday or the use of nonessential high energy cost items then you are not poor. It is nonsensical to give people who can afford these things more of other people's money.
 
Purple said:
Yes, but the older person has that personal responsibility as well. They can trade down to an apartment with a A energy rating and have a nice cash lump sum. What provision did they make for their own future? Should they have been more prudent?
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That is a very good point. Perhaps our buildings should be purely for our needs. We could introduce bedroom taxes. That way nobody would be over housed at any stage in their life. We could start with social housing. Houses that were once allocated for large families and now have only the parents at home. There are many of these.
 
Silversurfer said:
That is a very good point. Perhaps our buildings should be purely for our needs. We could introduce bedroom taxes. That way nobody would be over housed at any stage in their life.
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We have property tax. It should be increased significantly This would increase affordability for first time buyers.
Silversurfer said:
We could start with social housing. Houses that were once allocated for large families and now have only the parents at home. There are many of these.
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This absolutely should be done. The State's assets should be used for the greatest social good. It is outrageous that there are homeless families while there are State owned family homes with single occupants.
 
Yes and for those occupants whose income has increased since the start of their tenancy they should pay property tax too.
 
Silversurfer said:
Yes and for those occupants whose income has increased since the start of their tenancy they should pay property tax too.
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There should be a needs assessment done every 3-5 years on all tenants in all State funded housing. If your income increases enough you'll no loner qualify for HAPS. Council housing should be no different.
 
One thing that I havent seen mentioned is how some of the households most at risk of poverty due to rising fuel costs are people being forced to use pre-pay energy and paying above the cost of billpay, i hear stories of people topping up meters and they are distraught at how much it has increased.
The increase in the cost of petrol/gas could crush the finances of some households. A few years back, i had no option but to drive 600km per week to get to/from work. Any additional increase at that time would have been catastrophic to my household.
 
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