Forced to work in a position not qualified for and completely stressed

ajapale said:

Has your friend taken this issue up with the HR function within the HSE?

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I agree. Your friend seems to have a grievance and should lodge one. This policy is available from HR or the HSE intranet.

See this link.

[broken link removed]

I'd always advise to use the policies that are in place first.

Then there is the Dignity at Work Policy but from what you have posted I'm not too sure if I'd go down this road. I'd advise you or your friend to read both and decide which one is suitable. There are a number of support contact people who are trained to advise your friend on the policies. Their role is limited but this is available to

This is all free, so no need to pay for legal advise yet.

Thank you all for the suggestions. At this point the only document which may work in 'A's favor seems to be the appointment order. But 'A' is afraid that maybe if she contacts HR and talks about the contract, they might send out a new contract mentioning she has to work with adults too as additional responsibilities from now on. At the end of the day HR is also part of the HSE. And 'A' is also aware of all the suggestions given above. It is just that people who have already been through all this tell her that they have been there, done it and lost. The HSE appoints the best solicitors who can tweak the cases and have years of experience doing so. And 'A' just doesn't have the money to hire a solicitor , the time or the mental strength to take this forward as this may take years. Also there is not even one case with a positive outcome that can give her confidence. She has only heard stories and known people who have had the guts to fight when they were discriminated against and ultimately lost. So I was just wondering is contacting the media about this an option. Not as in telling my friend's case but at least making them aware how bullying is widespread and how people are harassed and their reputations compromised. I mean something like contacting RTE/Prime time and doing an episode on such cases where people tell about their experiences. So that the general public is made aware of such things. And also the bullies know that they cannot get away with this forever. I mean even if 'A' resigns, tomorrow somebody else in her place may be meted the same treatment. And more people will suffer until such things are taken seriously and dealt with. just wondering if contacting the fourth estate is an option.

'A' contacted HR regarding appointment order asking to explain the terms of contract. They said they will get back to her.

I think "A" is just not procative enough!

She talks to one solicitor who wont/cant take up her case and doesnt seek out other solicitors who specialise in employment issues.
She doesnt proactively engage with her union for some reason.
She doesnt proactively engage with her professional body for some reason.
She doesnt proactively engage with her HR department, other than on the narrow issue of the contents of her contract and allows her self to be fobbed off with a "we'll get back to you". At the very least she should formally lodge her grievance through the grievance procedure.

She should engage with all of the above and document every step keeping meticulous records of all phone calls, emails, converstaions and correspondance.

Contacting the likes of Joe Duffy or Primetime is unlikely to achieve very much in my opinion.

You are correct that in the current environment of quangos being closed down and various agencies of the HSE being abolished/amalgamated there are hugh issues facing the entire work force. This is all the more reason to engage fully with unions, professional bodies, solicitors, HR and local management.

@ajapale...Completely agree with you and that frustrates me too. In the very beginning when the bullying started, I told 'A' to report it and it will only get worse if she is timid. 'A" said 'bullying' is a strong word and she cannot malign somebody's reputation. And I told her you care about them for what I don't understand but they are out to ruin your life. There is one detail which I have left out as I was told by one moderator not to include it here as this is a widely read forum and all the parties can be identified. And somehow I feel 'that ' is an important part of this issue, I could be wrong but it definitely figures somewhere in this. If it is not a problem and bother for you I can sent a private message about it to you only if you want. I was talking about media as this is not an one off case...But lot of people are facing such problems and nothing is being done about it.

When 'A' asked for appointment will HR, she was told to send an e-mail mentioning the reason for meeting. When she asked to explain the terms of contract , she was told they will get back to her. Is is really a possibility that HR manager doesn't know what the contract means that they need time to respond. Also HR didn't agree for a meeting just wanted 'A' to write her queries. Now 'A' can act only depending on the response. If the response in not in 'A's favor, then the 'n' number of queries 'A' has will have no meaning at all. Solicitor friend didn't even want to listen to 'A's problem as it would have been a conflict of interest and rightly so. Depending on HR's response 'A' will plan further action. But now everyone will know that 'A'has started acting and will be on their guard and will try to build up their case too if they haven't already started doing it. A very important query I had was how does a committee take its decision on bullying? Now it will be 'A's word against bully 'C'. Is it legal for 'A' to record the bully in action with her camera phone as shown in movies. On what grounds will committee take action? Is it just on believing one's word and disregarding another's or do they actually needs proofs. The e-mails and other non verbal exchanges that are documented will definitely be professional in nature with no offensive or insulting terms. 'B'( manager) and 'C'(junior bully) will not risk using bullying terms in things that are documented. But it is during the inter personal interactions between 'A' & 'B' , and 'A' &'C' that the verbal insults and bullying happens. How does one document these instances? Is is legal to film it or at least voice record it? Do the committee make its decision only on face value? What impression did you get when HR asked for time to respond regarding contract?

HR says according to 'redeployment principles set in public service agreement' 'A' can be asked to treat non paediatric patients too. Can somebody please corroborate this?

inasoup said:

HR says according to 'redeployment principles set in public service agreement' 'A' can be asked to treat non paediatric patients too. Can somebody please corroborate this?

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Her union is best positioned to confirm or deny this.

ajapale said:

She talks to one solicitor who wont/cant take up her case and doesnt seek out other solicitors who specialise in employment issues.
She doesnt proactively engage with her union for some reason.
She doesnt proactively engage with her professional body for some reason.
She doesn't pro-actively engage with her HR department, other than on the narrow issue of the contents of her contract and allows her self to be fobbed off with a "we'll get back to you". At the very least she should formally lodge her grievance through the grievance procedure.

She should engage with all of the above and document every step keeping meticulous records of all phone calls, emails, converstaions and correspondance.

You are correct that in the current environment of quangos being closed down and various agencies of the HSE being abolished/amalgamated there are hugh issues facing the entire work force. This is all the more reason to engage fully with unions, professional bodies, solicitors, HR and local management.

Click to expand...

This is all the more reason to engage fully with unions, professional bodies, solicitors, HR and local management.

inasoup said:

HR says according to 'redeployment principles set in public service agreement' 'A' can be asked to treat non paediatric patients too. Can somebody please corroborate this?

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Does A possess the minimum legal qualifications needed to work in the non-paediatric area?

To qualify this, I understand that she may not have the same level of training and experience and may not have done many of the courses or have many of the additional specialised qualifications that other staff commonly have, but does she have the legal bare minimum requirements? If she does, it may well be that she is regarded as someone who can be reassigned.

I get the gut feeling from this thread that A seems to be determined to go down a legal route rather than pushing the issue internally. You will not win a legal case, even if you are right, if you have not made sufficient efforts to use established internal procedures and common sense in approaching the problem. If it is the case that A is not qualified (legally - see above) to do the job she is assigned to, she needs to insist on talking to HR about it and seeing what can be done. If it is the case that she is legally qualified, but feels she needs to do additional courses, then she needs to address this with HR. No matter what the issue is, the first step for her is insisting on a sit down meeting with her HR manager to deal with the issue - not emails - a face to face meeting. I would find it hard to believe that any HR manager would not be willing to sit down and discuss a staff members concerns with them if it is a major issue.

@ajapale, complainer..yes 'A' has started engaging with union. @csirl...agree that 'A' will lose the case as HSE recruits the best solicitors and playing around with the loopholes in the system gives them bread and butter. HR replied after many reminders. But in a way I feel the e-mail correspondence is the best as that will show what answers HR gave and how long they took ( most probably the delay is due to legal advice they would have had to take) to respond. Maybe in a one to one meeting they might say things which they can deny later. But e-mails are written documented proof. Today I read a very interesting article regarding bullying and HR's response to it. The bottom line was managment sticks together and HR never defends or supports an employee. HR and Manager connive and will even make a way to fire the employee (which I feel is what they are planning to do against 'A'. HR is there to cover the company, NOT to help the employees. HR is there for the company, upper management will always side with management and YOU can't affect the process except by getting another job.
Can just see if unions do anything in 'A's case. In fact I told 'A' in case they they do not anything for you, at least stop being a member. She can use that money to buy some new clothes and feel better

In 'A's 2nd meeting with health physician (HP), she was told that she is under tremendous stress and that management has to address A's concerns. But HP also said that 'A' should consider other options like flexi hours if management and HR are not solving the issue. HP also said an all party case conference will be held to find solutions to 'A's issues. Any tips on preparation for case conference will be greatly appreciated. Anyone gone through it?

Updates...'A' is completely devastated. She was told by manager 'B that she doesn't even have the skills of an entry level professional. This after getting good feedback as a child specialist for so many years. 'B' also told that on chatting with the Occupational health physician, they decided that there is no need for the case conference. This after the OHP was sure and gave in writing a report that 'A' is completely stressed and management has to address 'A's genuine concerns and that an all part case conference will be held. And amongst themselves, they decided its no longer needed as 'A' is not competent. 'B' also told 'A' to file an grievance if she has any problem with the decision. So were they sleeping all these years that they allowed an incompetant person to treat kids who need specialized care? IMPACT said' A'cannot be asked to treat patients outside her scope of specialization and they need to talk to her. But all the attempts made to talk to them is proving unsuccessful as they are always busy with meetings. Long live the HSE.

And yes they have started some disciplinary action as 'A' doesn't have the necessary skills.

When 'A' met up with union representatives, they told her she cannot be asked to treat adults as her permanent contract clearly states that she is hired for paediatrics. Union also said that HR has to respond within 5 days when they get a letter from the Union. Now its been a month and HR hasn't responded to Union even though reminders have been sent. Is there any time frame under which the HR needs to respond to Union? HR is showing no interest to respond, Union is also not proactive in pursuing this (even though they claim that 'A' has a strong case). Is legal option the only way out?

Now the union has intervened so HR and management has got all jittery and they are trying their best to cover their mistakes.

They told that they want to dismiss 'A' as the person supervising her was of the view that 'A' has the skills of an undergraduate.

Then Union asked if:
any complaint has been made against 'A',
if 'A's' treatment has been life threating to anyone,
if 'A' has done any errors in clinical method
and some other questions.

And the management answered NO to all the questions.

So Union asked for what reason they want 'A' to be dismissed?

So management informally told that 'A' will be asked to go on administrative leave.

They also said that 'A' could be a threat to children too as she is not skilled enough. This after she has treated kids for so many years and there has never been an performance based issue or complaint against her.

And like Sunny mentions above I couldn't find any information regarding the conditions under which administrative leave can be imposed in Ireland.

So wanted to know where I can get exact information regarding this.

And Union said that 'A' has been asked to treat adults in breach of the redeployment laws and her permanent appointment order.

And Union told 'A' that the HR and management will make it very difficult for her as they will not accept their mistakes easily and will try everything to cover this.

She really needs a solicitor skilled in employment law. She can't address issues like this via a bulletin board.