First Time Buyers?

J

jergam

Registered User
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13
Hi,

my boyfriend and I are going to try and buy a house together. He is a first time buyer, but I am not, this will be my second (joint) mortgage, I bought a house with my friend 3 years ago.

How does this work with stamp duty if one is a first time buyer and one isn't?

Any help appreciated.
 
Short answer is no - you are a second time buyer & because you have a beneficial interest in the new house, it will not be regarded as a FTB purchase for stamp duty.
 
If you buy a brand new house for your own occupation, you will pay no Stamp Duty.

If you buy a second-hand house jointly, you will pay Stamp Duty.

Your boyfriend can claim tax relief on the mortgage at First Time Buyer Rates for seven years. You can claim tax relief at the FTB rates for four years (the balance of seven years since you bought before.)
 
I bought an apartment 4 years ago as a first time buyer. Is there any way I can change that into an investment property and avail of the first time buyer for a hourse?
 
Hannah76 said:
I bought an apartment 4 years ago as a first time buyer. Is there any way I can change that into an investment property and avail of the first time buyer for a hourse?
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Yes, you could now pay the stamp duty to Revenue on the apartment as an investor but it's probably not the done thing as it is unlikely you will make any savings.

For example.

Apartment 200,000 FTB no stamp duty INVESTOR 8,000 + 1% per month + 30% interest- (you should check this)

New new House now as owner occupier usually no stamp duty
New second hand house now as owner occupier 3%, 4%, 5%, 6% which should work out a lot less than 8,000 + Interest

Also the mortgage interest relief would be due back.
 
davidoco said:
Yes, you could now pay the stamp duty to Revenue on the apartment as an investor but it's probably not the done thing as it is unlikely you will make any savings.

For example.

Apartment 200,000 FTB no stamp duty INVESTOR 8,000 + 1% per month + 30% interest- (you should check this)

New new House now as owner occupier usually no stamp duty
New second hand house now as owner occupier 3%, 4%, 5%, 6% which should work out a lot less than 8,000 + Interest

Also the mortgage interest relief would be due back.
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This is incorrect. What is your source for this information?
 
Yes davidoco's information above is all wrong. It seems to suggest that you could retrospectively "declare" the apartment an investment and backdate everything to 4 years ago. You can't. Presumably hannah76 was living in it for 4 years.

hannah76 - as you've owned a property already you're not a First Time Buyer for Stamp Duty purposes. If you buy a brand-new house for your own occupation, it will probably be exempt from Stamp Duty unless it's very large.

You'll be treated as a First Time Buyer for Tax Relief purposes for the balance of seven years from when you first bought your apartment.
 
Howitzer said:
This is incorrect. What is your source for this information?
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Just because it’s a stupid thing to do doesn’t mean it’s incorrect information. The poster could declare that she made a mistake and that the property was an investment (rented out etc), pay the fines, interest and stamp duty, put her tax affairs in order and then legitimately claim she was a first time buyer on a new transaction. I did point out the financial folly of such a move.

Revenue even provides a form for Stamp Duty Clawback on residential properties.
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davidoco said:
Just because it’s a stupid thing to do doesn’t mean it’s incorrect information. The poster could declare that she made a mistake and that the property was an investment (rented out etc), pay the fines, interest and stamp duty, put her tax affairs in order and then legitimately claim she was a first time buyer on a new transaction. I did point out the financial folly of such a move.

Revenue even provides a form for Stamp Duty Clawback on residential properties.
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This appears to be a common misconception. You cannot do this. You can only be a first time buyer ONCE, irrespective of of whether it's a PPR, investment property, inhouse, outhouse, or dog house. YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO BUY AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY AND THEN CLAIM TO BE A FTB ON A LATER PURCHASE.

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A first time buyer is a person who has not previously purchased or built a house or apartment anywhere in the world and who is purchasing a house or apartment for use as their principal place of residence. Where there is more than one buyer, each of the buyers must be a first time buyer to obtain the stamp duty exemptionfor first time buyers. The benefit obtained where the first time buyer exemption applies is subject to clawback provisions.
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Howitzer said:
This appears to be a common misconception. You cannot do this. You can only be a first time buyer ONCE, irrespective of of whether it's a PPR, investment property, inhouse, outhouse, or dog house. YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO BUY AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY AND THEN CLAIM TO BE A FTB ON A LATER PURCHASE.

[broken link removed]
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Looking at the FAQ in that guide the first answer in the FAQ is pasted below. If I could format the pasted text below with a BIG BOLD "AND" at the end of the first two bullet points I would.

You seem to be giving the impression that an individual cannot buy an investment residential property prior to purchasing their FTB owner occupier residential property. What is your source for that information?




Frequently Asked Questions
Who is a first time buyer?

A first time buyer is a person, (or, where there is more than one buyer, each of such persons):

* who has not on any previous occasion, either individually or jointly, purchased or built on his/her own behalf a house (in Ireland or abroad) and

* where the property purchased is occupied by the purchaser, or a person on his behalf, as his/her only or principal place of residence and

* where no rent, other than rent under the rent-a-room-scheme, is derived from the property for five years after the date of the current purchase.
 
Born again First Time Buyers!!

My understanding ( with the experience of more years than I care to remember as a practising solicitor!) is that FTB stamp duty relief is a once off, never to be repeated ( save in some strictly limited situations) relief so that when Hannah wants to know if she can declare what was her ftb apartment to now be an investment property, does that make her a born again ftb and the answer to that is no as per the Revenue guidelines.

mf
 
Haha... thanks all of you for the information. So I guess I just have to cough up money for stamp duty like the rest of yous. It was worth a try. ;o)
 
Marianne said:
If you buy a brand new house for your own occupation, you will pay no Stamp Duty.

If you buy a second-hand house jointly, you will pay Stamp Duty.

Your boyfriend can claim tax relief on the mortgage at First Time Buyer Rates for seven years. You can claim tax relief at the FTB rates for four years (the balance of seven years since you bought before.)
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Sorry to ask a stupid question, but does this mean that if I ever buy on my own in the future that I will be treated as a FTB, even if I buy with my boyfriend now?
 
jergam said:
Sorry to ask a stupid question, but does this mean that if I ever buy on my own in the future that I will be treated as a FTB, even if I buy with my boyfriend now?
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No. You're never going to be a FTB again ever - not unless you fall into one of the very limited exceptions which is to do with marital breakup/trusteeship.

But while you will never be a FTB ever again you can still be an owner occupier which would mean that if you bought a new property under a certain size, that stamp duty would not be due.

Remember - its hard to be a born again First Time Buyer! And First Time Buyer means just that - First Time Buyer.

mf
 
mf1 said:
No. You're never going to be a FTB again ever - not unless you fall into one of the very limited exceptions which is to do with marital breakup/trusteeship.

But while you will never be a FTB ever again you can still be an owner occupier which would mean that if you bought a new property under a certain size, that stamp duty would not be due.

Remember - its hard to be a born again First Time Buyer! And First Time Buyer means just that - First Time Buyer.

mf
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Ok thanks for your help!
 
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