Financial Advisors v Solicitors v Doctors v Accountants

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NorthDrum

Registered User
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Just thought I would put this up and see if anybody has any productive comments to make on this topic.

Just seems to me like the general public have an inherrent distrust of Financial advisors , not to mention the comission or fees charged by financial advisers which can be seen as expensive:

-People will pay €45 to have a doctor tell them something they already know (you have a cold go to bed).

-People will pay thousands for Solicitors to do what seems like the most basic of tasks (legal letters etc).

-I have seen accountants charge hundreds by the hour for number crunching.

* I chose these 3 as they are the most obvious professions known to us all. They are just my examples, not to be taken personally.

I havent been on this website long but from talking to brokers generally and from feedback from certain organisations (including my own experiences working in broker service environments) there seems to be an unbalanced opinion of brokers and fees in the market place in comparison to differant professional services.

I personally feel that I generally get more value for money off my rabbits vet then I do off my doctor (its not that much cheaper either)!!. But then again this shows that people can have an unbalanced view of the fees being charged for specific services.

The money we all spend on legal fees, accountant fees and doctor fees can be ridiculous but generally go unquestioned.

I was at my Dentist the other day for under 10 mins, he looked at my teeth, did a bit of messing and said all fine, that'll be €75 thanks very much.

Im not questioning whether or not the majority of people in these professions havent worked hard to get where they are, Im just flabbergasted by the disproportionate importance (moneywise) put on certain services.

Just curious to see what the general consensus out there is.
 
What's your point?

In relation to accountancy, nobody is forced to incur accountancy fees. There is a competitive market. Anyone can trade as an accountant even if they have no qualifications, training, experience or financial resources. People can avoid accountants altogether by doing their own accounts and tax returns. On the other hand, if they want a professional service they will normally be quite happy to pay for it.
 
ubiquitous said:
What's your point?
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This is the debate forum right?

Im just debating the general publics acceptance of erratic and unquantifiable fees to certain professions compared to their distrust of Financial Advisers (in relation to fees).

Thought it was pretty obvious what I was saying.
 
Northdrum,

Firstly, I get your point!

I agree that the fees that some professions seem to get away with charging seems to be disproportionate.

To give another example. Selling our house at the moment. Solicitor will get €1250 + outlays, estate agent will get €5000. I have to say that I value the services of the solicitor more than that of the EA but am paying a fraction of the price. (Again nothing personal - just as example)

I guess we have just gotten used to paying certain amounts for certain services. People generally check prices for services against the market rate, not using any measure of the value actually obtained. I can only assume that those who offer services with little value will be usurped by a low cost alternative when the time is right. Like the ariline industry of old...
 
I was at my Dentist the other day for under 10 mins, he looked at my teeth, did a bit of messing and said all fine, that'll be €75 thanks very much.
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What sort of messing?
what would a washing machine service engineer charge you for a call and some messing with your washing machine?
More than 75 euro?
 
Your prospects of generating a decent debate on this question might improve if you refrained from silly comments like


People will pay a premium price for a service if (1) they have no choice; or (2) if they perceive that they are getting good value.

The lack of competition in certain sectors (notably law and medicine/dentistry) has traditionally supported a culture of high fees. This does not apply to accountancy as I have mentioned above.

In relation to financial services, both (1) and (2) apply. For example there is a limited range of banking and insurance providers in this country. On another level, financial advisors can command premium fees from customers if they can provide high "value added" solutions to financial issues affecting these customers. If their services cannot command such fees, then that is their problem.
 

Cheers 3CC. Not trying to offend anybody or any profession in particular its just we all seem to just put our heads down and get on with things instead of actually asking where we are getting value for money.

Have you ever heard of a doctor giving 50% off to new patients or any special offers for that matter?

Is there a database outlining solicitors fees (ie how much house registration charges should be or something to that effect)? Where is the competitiveness in this profession? Shop around, yep you might get things cheaper but at the end of the day you will probobley not understand why its cheaper or how it can be done cheaper.

If there was more transparency in these professions there might be more confidence in what you are paying for, more competitiveness in the marketplace and better deals for customers. Im sure there are other ways of improving professional services in this country but why would the governing bodies want to change anything for less gravey . . . . . .
 
I am sorry but I fail to see how this is a Great Financial Debate. Sounds more like letting off steam
 

I didnt think they were silly comments, perhaps they could of been phrased better, but they were just used to make a point.

Financial Advisors can command higher fees in certain circumstances but this would be the exception rather then the rule (I dont believe that there are more bad advisers then good out there that deserve lower fees).

I think you hit the nail on the head though, it is all about culture and how we have all been brought up in a society that rewards oraganisations/professions that have a stranglehold on competitiveness and whom have it all to comfortable for the general publics good.

Dont get me started on banks ! ! !
 
Sunny said:
I am sorry but I fail to see how this is a Great Financial Debate. Sounds more like letting off steam
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Im putting my points across (which may differ to others) and asking what the general consensus is (initiating debate). Dont see how this is thread isnt a financial debate (considering the discussion on fees and professional services given).

Whether or not people want to debate this topic is up to them but I did say from the start that I would be interested in any productive comments. If you dont like what I said, fine, but at least have something interesting to say.

Ive seldom seen a debate worth discussing that hasnt had some sort of arguement or controversial point made.

If you guys need an opening sentance that spells it out for you on the great financial debate here you go :

"Some Professional Services in this country are not properly (or fairly) governed and are protected/motivated by their own greedy interest." Discuss
 

But you damage your argument by including accountants in this while, as I pointed out, there are few, if any, competitiveness issues in the accountancy sector.
 
North Drum

This is a rant, so it's a Letting Off Steam issue. When you have been around long enough, you will become a Frequent Poster and can post such material then.

The Great Financial Debates is for matters relating to financial services only. It is not for comparing the satisfaction you get from your rabbits with the value you get from your dentist's messing around.

Ubi gives you good advice as a new user. While your style is entertaining, you will get a more useful response if your language is more measured.


Brendan
 

Nice random figures there but that aside the Ea's job is to make you as much as possible therefore you should value his services a little more and if you don't regard it value for money negotiate or sell it yourself.

What sort of messing?
what would a washing machine service engineer charge you for a call and some messing with your washing machine?
More than 75 euro?
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Would the dentist call to your home to do the work?
 
I'm not sure that I get your points either but...
Not really sure what you mean here.
I personally feel that I generally get more value for money off my rabbits vet then I do off my doctor
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If you don't feel that you are getting value for money from your doctor then why don't you shop around and/or make the most of your time when you do visit by asking questions etc.?
But then again this shows that people can have an unbalanced view of the fees being charged for specific services.
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I don't get this point either.
The money we all spend on legal fees, accountant fees and doctor fees can be "ridiculous" but generally go unquestioned.
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You seem to be implying that it is common or the norm for such fees to be ridiculous? That seems to be a bit of a sweeping statement to make in general terms.
I was at my Dentist the other day for under 10 mins, he looked at my teeth, did a bit of messing and said all fine, that'll be €75 thanks very much.
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Did you ask him what he had done? Did you query the charge if (as it seems) you thought that it was too high or not value for money? Did you shop around for what you consider a competitive fee for the same work?
Im not questioning whether or not the majority of people in these professions havent worked hard to get where they are, Im just flabbergasted by the disproportionate importance (moneywise) put on certain services.
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By whom? Again this seems like a meaningless generalisation.
 
Is there a database outlining solicitors fees
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There is no database outlining solicitors fees or recommended charges as to do so would be anti-competitive and would have people like you giving out.

ie how much house registration charges should be or something to that effect)?
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Registration charges can be easily checked on the Property Registration Authority Website.

Where is the competitiveness in this profession?
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Competition within the legal profession is more competitive now than ever.

Shop around, yep you might get things cheaper but at the end of the day you will probobley not understand why its cheaper or how it can be done cheaper.
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It is cheaper because that particular solicitor is charging less for his time than the solicitor that quotes a dearer price. Each solicitor is free to decide how much they charge.
 
I think the issue is that many people do not regard financial advisors as professionals. Lawyers and doctors (and vets) require a license to practice and are subject to sanction by their regulatory body. In the case of lawyers there is a strong case to be made that since their regulatory body is also their representative body there is a conflict of interest but that’s a different matter. The bottom line is that many people are sceptical about people who claim to be “Professional” advisors. This, in my opinion, is unfair but never the less I think that it is the case.
 
Purple said:
I think the issue is that many people do not regard financial advisors as professionals.
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I'd say you've hit the nail on the head. Financial advisors are not generally seen as professionals in the same category as some of those mentioned above and as one myself, I'd love to hear opinions as to what the wider industry could do to redress this. (I know what I can do in my own firm to gain recognition - this is a separate issue - I'm more interested in what could the larger industry be doing.)

I'd prefer not to hear anecdotal tales of how individuals have received poor advice or service from a financial advisor as I honestly don't think this is the kernel of the bigger issue here. For every tale one individual relates, I can come up with another one of poor service or advice from a doctor etc. Like any profession, there are good and bad financial advisors, doctors, solicitors etc.


This what's frustrating. Financial advisors require at least one licence to practice, more if they want to cover different areas. There are minimum standards of relevant education and training that have to be met. There's ongoing training has to be done and documented. There are strict regulations as to how the business must be conducted, with routine visits from the Financial Regulator to ensure that standards are being upheld. The regulatory body is not a representative body.
 
Purple said:
In the case of lawyers there is a strong case to be made that since their regulatory body is also their representative body there is a conflict of interest but that’s a different matter.
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Self-regulation is an old chestnut.

Can I point out that being able to make a complaint about a solicitor to their professional body is in addition to all recourse you have otherwise by law.

Secondly this is the actual system:

1. You can make a complaint to the complaints section of the law society. They will assess your claim and try to sort it out with the solicitor if it is a valid claim. And don't forget that a certain percentage of complaints will come from kooks who do not have a valid complaint. If they deem it necessary they will send it on to the disciplinary tribunal.

2. Or you can go directly to the disciplinary tribunal. Which is entirely independant of the law society and is made up of 20 solicitors and 10 laypeople appointed by the president of the high court.

3. And if you're not happy with that you can go to the high court.

4. And if you're not happy with the verdict of the complaints section of the law society you can also go to the independant ombudsman. Yes, independant.

5. And you can take a negligence action against your solicitor in court just like you can with any other service provided by any other service provider. Just most of the others don't have the other 4 possibilities above.

6. We all have to have professional indemnity insurance both while practising and now for a minimum of 6 years run off cover.

7. We have a compensation fund that all solicitors pay into every year.


So next time someone wants to reel out that old chestnut please think of the above.
 
Lets be Pragmatic about this rant / post - I have made up my mind years ago about all professions and services be it doctors, solicitors, dentist, golf pros, physios.. they are there to make a buck! end of story so they charge accordingly and in the case of doctors and physios the mantra usually is after you pay them "Oh I think you should come back next week for one last visit" that'll be 65 yoyos please. As for conveyancing don't get me started on this rip-off!!
 
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