filter traffic lights

OK, bit of a rant here but can't find an answer in the rules of the road for this so maybe someone here can clarify this for once and for all.Filter traffic lights have been installed at the entrance to my housing estate to access main road by turning right or left onto it. So far so good you might think. However so far so confusing. The filter traffic signal is just a green light no left or right arrows. Traffic leaving the estate who are turning right do so as soon as the filter light goes green and proceed on.

However the traffic lights for the main road are just at the exit and you can see one side of them as you turn left. A little further on there is a pedestrian crossing for the main road as well which is part of the traffic sequence and does't change on demand iykwim. These traffic lights on the main road are of course red when the filter light is green.

Most drivers leaving the estate and turning right are proceeding when the filter light is green and ignoring the red light , assuming that it is to stop oncoming traffic on the main road (myself included). Some drivers however are abruptly halting as soon as they turn, which means only half a car can turn right at a time!

Myself and others feel its only a matter of time before someone runs into someone from behind. So are we right in our interpretation of the traffic signals or are we the bad drivers? Even the gardai seem confused by it - when I was leaving the estate today I beeped the car ahead of me to move on as it had braked sharply as soon as it left the estate. ( I wouldn't normally do that and meant it as a little 'helpful' beep - sick child in the back threatening to vomit hence my urgency!)A passing guard 'gave out' to me - I told her that i understood that the red light was for traffic on the main road and we should be following the green filter light, the same as traffic turning to the right was doing.She couldn't tell me if I was right or wrong, maybe someone here could.

gigaset said:

OK, bit of a rant here but can't find an answer in the rules of the road

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Myself and others feel its only a matter of time before someone runs into someone from behind.

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So I take it that your rant is about drivers like youself who don't know the rules of the road and others who may not be able to maintain control of their vehicles and keep a safe stopping distance from the vehicle in front?

I beeped the car ahead of me to move on as it had braked sharply as soon as it left the estate. ( I wouldn't normally do that and meant it as a little 'helpful' beep - sick child in the back threatening to vomit hence my urgency!)A passing guard 'gave out' to me

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Proper order. This is not what the is for.

I reckon you're correct in your assumption and that a poor placement of the lights on the main road is the cause of the confusion.

Take a few photos and email them to the NRA and local council. Maybe they'll see sense and move/remove the offending light.

No you seemed to have misinterpreted the post.
I am seeking clarification as to wha t to do when presented with two different traffic instructions-my view is that I am obeying the rules of the road as I am following the filter light and that the confusion is caused by the physical positioning of the traffic lights . There is actually no answer in the rules of the road book for this . Would welcome any helpful insights on this

Thank you Pique . Good advice.

It sounds to me that you're in the wrong and that cars should be stopping at what are separate traffic lights. As another poster said, contact the NRA and try and get the ambiguity eliminated but you can't just make up new rules to suit yourself. Beeping at the other driver was a bit offside too.

Slightly off topic but when are the road safety authority (or DOE?)going to get sense and change the rules to allow a left turn against a red light just as right turns are allowed in the US. it would speed up traffic, lessen queues just by treating a red light as a yield rather than a stop on a left turn junction?

I think the question is whether the light that is causing the problem part of the set that controls the junction or related to something else.

If it is part of the set that controls the junction you should be passing it as it is the green light at the exit from the estate that is relevant for traffic exiting the estate. Stopping midway through the junction is the wrong thing to do.

Think about it in another context - turning right onto a dual carriageway. There are 2 traffic lights for the traffic already on the carriageway (one either side of the junction) and traffic joining the carriageway is not meant to stop part of the way through the junction to obey the red light it will pass on the way through.

OK Hands up (but not when I'm driving) on the beep- in explaination but not excusing this, I was bringing my very sick son to the doctor, and the driver ahead was obviously puzzled- looking around, sticking his head out the window to look athe lights ,and asking a pedestrian if she wanted to cross the road. It was a short beep intended to indicate that it was ok to proceed. Normally I would just wait and wonder.

I am not trying to make up rules to suit, merely trying to establish what the rule is. My logic tells me to obey a green filter light when I am the filter traffic. Most other drivers using this exit do as well. I am waiting clarification from the Council as to the correct procedure as I would hate to see myself and my neighbours all up in court as flagrant law breakers

gigaset said:

It was a short beep intended to indicate that it was ok to proceed.

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I am not trying to make up rules to suit ...

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Other than on the beeping issue?

I've seen 2 versions of it - which is yours?

With the lights on the main road, the key issue is where the thick white stop line for the traffic is (not to be confused with the lines that pedestrians should keep between). The important thing is that the lights only apply to cars BEHIND the stop line. If there is a few yards distance between the line and the lights, the lights DO NOT APPLY to cars beyond the line, but who havent reached the pole that the lights are on. A lot of Irish drivers mistakenly think that the pole the lights are mounted on is the stopping point.

Version 1 - Set of lights at exit from estate. Set of independent pedestrian lights immediately on left turn - usually a small yellow box junction. White stop line is close to crossing to the lhs of exit from estate.Traffic exiting estate should stop if lights on main road red.

Version 2 - Lights in same position, but white stop line on main road is to rhs of exit from estate i.e. on one side of junction, but traffic light poles on other side. Lights on main road only apply to those cars on main road who are behind the white stop line. Cars exiting from estate & turning left do not have to obey them.

ClubMan said:

Other than on the beeping issue?

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I'm not sure that we have established that the OP was wrong in their interpretation of the rules regarding the junction so I believe it is unfair to suggest that they are making up the rules.

One must have some sympathy for the OP if the local garda can't even tell them what the correct procedure is.

In my opinion csirl may be on the right track and the OP should look at the road markings to see if they clarify the situation.

Gigaset - If it's any consolation, if I were in the same situation, I would have done the same beep, sick child or no sick child.

As the burning issue of the beep continues to be of great concern I will contend that I used it to make the other driver aware of my presence for safety reasons , as permitted .

CSIRL, thank you for your reply. That was just the sort of information I was looking for - my exit is indeed a version 2 . The council have just confirmed that it is correct to proceed and that they intend to put up a temporary sign to confirm this.

Statler said:

Think about it in another context - turning right onto a dual carriageway. There are 2 traffic lights for the traffic already on the carriageway (one either side of the junction) and traffic joining the carriageway is not meant to stop part of the way through the junction to obey the red light it will pass on the way through.

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gigaset said:

My logic tells me to obey a green filter light when I am the filter traffic.

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These are the relevant issues here and I believe them to be correct.

What the facination is with the beeping of the horn, I don't know...

gigaset said:

The filter traffic signal is just a green light no left or right arrows.

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If there's no arrow, then it's not a filter light:



"A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red light is also showing."

Is your estate in Glasnevin? I think I know the place if so!

Is the situation not that there's a set of traffic lights at a T-junction, and then a separate set of lights/pedestrian crossing on the main road which is a little too close to the main junction and is causing ambiguity? It sounds a little like the junction of Sandford Road/Marlborough Road/Gonzaga College where many people aren't sure what exactly is going on.