Fibber Magee's breaking the smoking ban

Smokers

I hear business is down for many coke/smack dealers too following recent Garda seizures. Maybe we should let those parasites sell their addictive wares in the pub too.

The Environmental Health Officers & the Gardai need to shut this guy down straight away. I'll reserve my outrage for parasites like him who make a living hawking addictive substances, whether inside or outside the law.

huh?

I'm not quite sure I understand this bit:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Gardai don't enforce this law, it would seem that politicians are exempt, if you were fined €3000 in court and couldn't pay you could find yourself in prison (costing the state around €1000 per week) but you would then legally be allow to smoke
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I assume that when you say "this law" you mean the smoking ban?
Are there instances where this law has not been enforced? If so I'm all set to drum up a sense of outrage!

What politicians are exempt? Didn't one even get fired for breaking this ban on the first day? Did he get re-instated later on or something?

...

This guy has got to pay the price for this anarchy. The law is the law, like it or not. An example needs to be made of him by hitting him with several fines, not just a single 3k fine, but a fine for each time he fails to make reasonable attempts to enforce the law, as per the regulations.

This small-minded, militant publican and his like have had it too good for too long and are failing to see that in the free-market - as described above, you must compete on grounds of quality, value etc. Why doesn't he try lowering his prices across the board to increase sales volumes, as every other industry sector has had to do?

Let's just hope that this issue doesn't get clouded in outrage and then, while we are all busy complaining, the authorities fail to apply the law to its full (as per election posters issue - where are the details of who got fined what, as I reckon Gay Mitchell should have got a hefty bill?)

Re: huh?

I wasn't going to coment but what the hell.
I think this fella in Galway is dead right. He has set up a smoking room upstairs away from the no-smoking area. The non-smokers never need to go up there while the smokers can enjoy their drinks and smokes to their hearts content.
I would point out that cigs are a legal substance the same way as a pint is.

Re: huh?

At least you're consistent jem

Re: huh?

consistent and enjoying a smoke at this very min.

...

the law is the law and this man is breaking it, and you seem to be supporting that jem. Before the law was brought in was the time to make these arguments and/or legal challenges. Democracy is based on the rule of law and its not up to each of us to choose which laws to adhere to, that ain't the way it works.

The point that a cigarette is a legal substance is irrelevant - you can have it in your possession, but lighting it in a workplace is against the law. There is ample evidence that demonstrates that having non-smoking sections is not an adequate protection to the health of others nearby. Air conditioning is not an option either as it takes an airchange every 3 minutes to remove the deadly carcinogens that smokers choose to emit into the air, and at this rate everyone in the pub would be frozen.

The law is there to protect the workers' health as their right to health takes precedent...we are each free to act as we please so long as it does not infringe on the human rights of others.

Re: ...

'The law is the law, like it or not' - We are born free my friend. The law may be the law, but as free people we can challenge it. We would still be under British rule (not that that would be a bad thing ) were it not for certain people breaking the law. In fact, most of the world would be.

The judicial system is a serious system, deserving of respect and compliance - but when it is abused in a manner which affects our personal freedom then I have to question it. I am a non smoker, but I believe in personal freedom and choice - those great things that we are born with and man is not entitled to take these freedoms from his fellow man.

The job of government is to lead and to be fair. It is not the right of government to tell us adults what we can or cannot do with our own lives. We were born with choice and please God we'll die with it.

A bit of a stretch

to compare breaking the smoking ban to people fighting for their freedom from imperialist rule

What would happen to me if I walked into this guys pub and ordered five pints and then refused to pay for them - saying that I didn't like the law that said I had to pay for the drinks. Would he call the Gardai?

smokers and the bandit

shnaek, all sounds dandy but what about the personal rights of the workers.

should smokers also try and reclaim their rights to smoking in hospitals, offices, cinemas, planes etc etc

flawed arguments everywhere. great new law. Ireland be proud.

The Publican

They seem to be blind to the normal rules of competition.

Pubs in England compete on price, quality, value etc. In London if you want a cheap pint you go to the lad who sells cheap beer, if you want an expensive drink, you can get it as well.

They harp on about choice when it comes to tyring to have a fag, what about the consumer being denied the chance to choose to buy a pint at a lower price in the same area - they all charge the same. No choice. And saying 'go to the offy' is not a meaningful comparison, some of us still like having a pint in a pub.

That said O'looney's In Harolds X sells Guinness at €2.90 and Lager at €3.50. Why can't they all compete like this?

I have no sympathy for their whining - compete properly and you might make money. Moaning on about the ban clouds the issue and the fact that sales were falling before hand. They might go on about the ban too long and then realise it was the price all along and by that stage it could be too late to save the business.

Re: ...

On a more general note, many Irish people seem to view the legal status of something as the determining factor as to whether it's right or wrong. I would tend to view the law as a strong suggestion rather than something which must be strictly adhered to and to look at the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law (I know, I know . . tell it to the Judge). I think laws need to be reasonable, practical and enforceable. In the 1940’s a German doctor could kill Jews legally however now, naturally, he would be prosecuted for murder. Laws change. Truth and justice don’t.

Re: ...

I think laws need to be reasonable, practical and enforceable

If this is to apply to rules/laws in general then I see your point.

If you're inferring that the smoking ban does not fit into that category then I'd point out that with 97% compliance it clearly does.

Re: ...

True. People here at work have been harping that 'The law is the law' arguement all day. Laws do indeed change.

...

shnaek said

"I believe in personal freedom and choice - those great things that we are born with and man is not entitled to take these freedoms from his fellow man."

I also fully believe in these values. However, we are all free to exercise our personal freedom and choice only so long as it does not infringe on the human rights of others. Of these human rights, the right to one's health takes precedence over the right of another to exercise their personal freedom and choice. I'm pretty sure somebody can find a reference to the UN Charter for Human Rights that will back this up.

An example: if Anto the boy racer likes driving fast, he is totall free to exercise that personal freedom and choice by renting out a private racing track where he can rally away to his heart's content. However, if Anto were to engage in this sort of wreckless driving on public roads, his actions would be putting the health of others in jeopardy. For this reason we, as a consciencious society, enforce laws to prevent Anto from exercising this particular personal freedom and choice.

Another example is racism: we are all entitled to voice our opinions through free speech, but a civilised society outlaws racism as it infringes on the human rights of others.

So, apply this to the smoking ban: Anto aslo happens to be a smoker. He is perfectly entitled to smoke in his own home, and in doing so damage his own health. However, he is not entitled to engage in this behaviour in a workplace as this would mean that his own personal choice is damaging the health of those people who work there. We are all entitled to conduct our work in safe environments, so Anto is not permitted to smoke in the workplace.

I agree that sometimes a law should change, though this should only happen when there is a clear consensus amongst the population. Those of our ancestors who fought against British rule were fighting to change the law, but they had the backing of the people. The smoking ban is supported by the vast majority of the people, therefore there is no justification for breaking it.

Re: ...

I take your point, OhPinchy. Perhaps I was being abit over dramatic in my defense of personal freedom. But why not have small bars run by smokers for smokers, for example? We all need to be protected against what Mill called 'the tyrany of the majority'.

The Landlord is revolting

Western Health Board have given the landlord until 4pm on Thursday before they injunct him in the High Court. I don't know why they gave him so long at all at all.

Smokers

rainyday wrote - "The Environmental Health Officers & the Gardai need to shut this guy down straight away. I'll reserve my outrage for parasites like him who make a living hawking addictive substances, whether inside or outside the law."

God forbid an addictive substance should be sold and consumed inside a pub!!!!!

Lawless by name

Not sure if it has been mentioned buy this joker's name is Lawless...I ask you!

As as Christy Moore once sang

"he was Lawless by name and lawless by nature
trouble right from the start....

Nature played a trick on Lawless and the humour of nature is cruel
he grew up like we all had expected into a dangerous fool"

Fibbers

He said that his non smoking room upstairs was completely seperate from downstairs but on last nights TV you could see the upstairs balcony from down stairs so obviously the smoke would drift.