fianna fail in trouble


Sorry, but I thought Cowen showed himself up as being an arrogant bully today. I'm no FF fan but I'd take Bertie over the Bully any day!!
 

What? Can FF be described as right and FG as left definitively?
 
Last edited:
Vanilla said:
What? Can FF be described as right and FG as left
Click to expand...
I thought that traditionally FF were left of centre and FG were right of centre. Garrett the good brought FG to the left but I think Enda is from the more traditional wing of FG. I would not like to see a left/right split in Irish politics as it is overly simplistic and divisive. For example on many social issues Labour and the PD's would be close but on economic issues they are not. I agree with Rainyday that FF and FG are like different sides of the same coin and Labour are, in reality, the only real major opposition from an ideological point of view.
 
Vanilla said:
What? Can FF be described as right and FG as left definitively?
Click to expand...

No - What I meant was that FF/FG would live on the centre and right of centre, leaving the left to Labour, with the Greens & Shinners snapping at our heels.
 
RainyDay said:
No - What I meant was that FF/FG would live on the centre and right of centre, leaving the left to Labour, with the Greens & Shinners snapping at our heels.
Click to expand...
I don't see a huge difference between FF, FG or Labour.
If Labour get in how will they deliver better value for money? I don't see how it can happen without reforming the structures within the civil and public service. I don't see how that can happen without taking on the unions and I can't see Labour doing that. To be honest that's the main reason why I wouldn't vote for them; I think they will increase the amount of money that the exchequer pours into the black hole that is public spending. If I thought for a minute they would be better than the current government, and lets face it's not a big ask, I would be glad to see them in power. I think that Labour under Dick Spring were a positive force for liberal social change the last time they were in government.
 

So you'll vote for a party that has overseen rampant inflation in public spending, on the basis that the opposition might do the same?
 
room305 said:
So you'll vote for a party that has overseen rampant inflation in public spending, on the basis that the opposition might do the same?
Click to expand...

Yep, well kind of; I will vote for them because I fear that the alternative will be worse. Better the devil you know and all that.
 
The devil we know has a leader who took money from people and then appointed one of them to a state job. I used to vote with blind loyalty for them until the Haghey stuff began to surface, now it seems that this is an ethos within the party. Give me honesty any day instead of this third-world carry on. Swallowing the line that things will somehow be worse if we kick out these scammers shows a certain naivety, but it is understandable enough -- I fell for it myself in the past. Not this time though!
 
I concur with you Auto.
Besides after ten years in power FF have become stale, arrogant and defensive. They have lost touch with the people.
They have presided over a period in Irish history where we all know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
The two biggest factors controlling the economy are not under the control of FF ie interest rates and EU legislation. They have milked the property cow until she is dry - is it something approaching 40% of all construction spend is garnered back to the goverment in taxes?
Look at what is happening in Spanish property prices and then look at the drift away of manufacturing jobs in Ireland.
Very soon we will be under enormous pressure to harmonise corporate tax rates across Europe.
I don't see a thickness of a Euro note between FF and FG in their manifestos - first-time buyers, standard rates of tax and tax credits - but for me FF have been sticking their nose in the trough for far too long without looking at the wider picture of globalisation and its pitfalls.

Time for a change lads - but who do I plump for?
 
jasconius said:
Time for a change lads - but who do I plump for?
Click to expand...

It's hard to disagree with you and if it wasn't for the fact the a vote for FG is a vote for Pat Rabbitt I would be voting for FG.
They are the only party that has talked about competitiveness and inflation (with the notable exception of Brian Cowan). I just don't think these factors will be major considerations for the Labour party when they are formulating spending plans and I think that Labour will be able to force their agenda through if (and most likely when) they are in power. I have a lot of respect for most of Labour's front bench (except for Liz McManus) and consider them far more able than most of FG's front bench so it's not that I think they are fools, I just don't think they will be able to control spending or get value for money on the spending they do.
 
Purple said:
It's hard to disagree with you and if it wasn't for the fact the a vote for FG is a vote for Pat Rabbitt I would be voting for FG.
Click to expand...


I'd be more worried about the possibility of Sin Fein linking up with FF. Is this a possibility?
 
Is this a possibility?
Click to expand...

A frind of mine thinks it is..however he believes as they become more mainstream their policies will be watered down...

But I too dread the day it happens - will pack my bags..
 
Vanilla said:
I'd be more worried about the possibility of Sin Fein linking up with FF. Is this a possibility?
Click to expand...

I would say it definitely is. I mean what is all the guff about "incompatible economic policies"? FF know that economic policies can easily be amended. Bertie has already indicated he could do a deal with the Greens and they have pretty much the same economic stance as Sinn Fein.

If the provos do manage to connive a way into government, I'll be joining pinkyBear in fleeing the country.
 
It will be very interesting to see what happens the stock market if SF get into government...now where did I put dem der share certificates....
 
Firefly said:
It will be very interesting to see what happens the stock market if SF get into government...now where did I put dem der share certificates....
Click to expand...

I would think the Irish Stock Market is more influenced by International events rather than events at home... Maybe the banks will take a minor hit but they will soon recover.
Now that the Northern Issue has been put to bed Sinn Fein will concentrate more on economic policies. Up until a few years ago Sinn Fein were a single issue party with a few marxist policies thrown in for good measure but now that they have entered the mainstream they will slowly start to water down the marxist ideology. They have already started with corporation tax. They will go the way of Sinn Fein The Workers Party/New Agenda/Democratic Left which morfed into Labour.
At some stage in the future I can see a split in Sinn Fein. The split will come along economic grounds rather than a traditional 'republican' split.
The day will come when Sinn Fein will enter government in the south. And when they do they will be as main stream as all the rest of the parties...
 
room305 said:
Even after o'Caolain nationalises them?
Click to expand...

That will not happen. Sinn Fein will soon realise that the time for revolutionary talk is over. Pat Rabbitt wanted to nationalise Banks when he was in the Workers Party. I can remember a Workers Party Ard Fheis in Corks City Hall in the late 80s when Kathleen Lynch, Pat Rabbitt and Phoineas De Rossa were calling each other 'comrade' and delegates were wearing Ché T shirts... Now they are as mainstream as FF/FG..
Once they get a taste of power they will like it and will soon change there policies to ensure re election...
Irish history is littered with this scenario....
 
I really feel we need a change. 3 hours in traffic a day, high taxes (stealth taxes rather than visible ones), ridiculous medical charges, housing unaffordable for so many....Bertie and his crew have had ten years and every one of these issues has got worse.

The only hope for change is to vote FG, so that's what I'll be doing. I respect Enda Kenny for having the guts to stand up and say that he will deliver, or fall on his own sword. I'm going to hopefully give him that chance.
 
shesells said:
The only hope for change is to vote FG, so that's what I'll be doing. I respect Enda Kenny for having the guts to stand up and say that he will deliver, or fall on his own sword. I'm going to hopefully give him that chance.
Click to expand...

I think that's an excellent use of a vote: some people would even pay cash to see Enda fall on his sword.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register