Fair Deal/Nursing Homes Fair Deal Scheme and Life Loans

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greenhedge said:
i took out a life loan in 2006 my spouse is now gone into full time care the HSE pays a very good contribution to the cost of her care but has refused the loan to cover the cost of my contribution because of the life loan on the house my contribution which is €205 per week I cannot pay this as I only have my state pension to live on I am under pressure from the nursing home to pay up but I just do not have the money I know a few people facing this problem is there any solution as I cannot afford to move if I sell the house and pay off the life loan I will not have enough to buy an other property in my area and my fear is that I will end up homeless
greenhedge
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You should get a solicitor to draft up a response, indicating the details.
You cannot pay the 205 Euros and, as far as I am aware its not your bill anyway. The bill is for your spouse, so they should be addressing correspondence to your spouse. Presumably she has a pension which has already been sequestrated by the HSE.
The balance can be paid when you need nursing home care, or pass away.
The house can be sold and all liabilities discharged. The HSE and the bank can haggle over who gets what.
I know it's difficult and stressful when these letters arrive, but there really is nothing the HSE can do.
They are not going to evict your spouse from the nursing home and there is no way, on God's earth, they will get a possession order on your house.
If you explain the situation via a solicitor, they might stop hassling you.
All the best.
 
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Allpartied said:
The bill is for your spouse, so they should be addressing correspondence to your spouse. Presumably she has a pension which has already been sequestrated by the HSE.
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That is not correct, it is a joint application where income and assets of both spouses are assessed so yes it should be addressed to the OP. And I wouldn't be sending any solicitors letters. That would be a pointless exercise

@greenhedge : to get more useful advice, it would be helpful to know approximately what you provided to the Fair Deal such as:
  • Value of property
  • Value of cash/other assets
  • Your income
  • Spouses income
  • How much you took out in the life loan
  • interest rate of life loan
  • Current balance of life loan
 
_OkGo_ said:
That is not correct, it is a joint application where income and assets of both spouses are assessed so yes it should be addressed to the OP. And I wouldn't be sending any solicitors letters. That would be a pointless exercise

@greenhedge : to get more useful advice, it would be helpful to know approximately what you provided to the Fair Deal such as:
  • Value of property
  • Value of cash/other assets
  • Your income
  • Spouses income
  • How much you took out in the life loan
  • interest rate of life loan
  • Current balance of life loan
Click to expand...

The assets and income are jointly assessed, but the bill is the responsibility of the nursing home resident, unless they have given power of attorney to someone else.
It is never pointless to seek legal advice, when people are receiving threatening letters from debt collectors.
I've dealt with nursing homes and other elderly services. A solicitor's letter will get the decision maker, at the nursing home, to engage properly.
 
Allpartied said:
If you explain the situation via a solicitor, they might stop hassling you.
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Most who avail of Fair Deal are in private nursing homes and a spouse or other family member would have signed a contract with that nursing home to pay €xxx weekly with the HSE paying the balance.

While I sympathise with greenhedge’s predicament, it is perfectly reasonable for the private nursing home to expect payment in full on a monthly basis for the service provided.

I would be surprised if a solicitor advised otherwise.
 
twofor1 said:
Most who avail of Fair Deal are in private nursing homes and a spouse or other family member would have signed a contract with that nursing home to pay €xxx weekly with the HSE paying the balance.

While I sympathise with greenhedge’s predicament, it is perfectly reasonable for the private nursing home to expect payment in full on a monthly basis for the service provided.

I would be surprised if a solicitor advised otherwise.
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How can he pay 205 quid a week, if he has income of 235 quid a week.
One of the problems with the HSE and Nursing Homes is their attitude to spouses. In the Nursing Home, you can be guaranteed, there is a plethora of protocols and guidelines on elder care. The vulnerabilities, the illnesses, the cognitive decline, the lack of confidence, the awareness of modern communication, the law, the value of their own assets. It will be a bible of how to manage those things fairly and with due consideration of the factors which effect judgement, decision making and the normal aspects of day to day life, that we take for granted. But when it comes to sending out the bills, that goes out the window. When you get old, everything changes. It changes to different degrees to different people , but it changes. If Greenhedges has children or family members who can advocate for him then they might be able to do the job, but if not a local solicitor would be able to help.
It's simple really, the bill is unpayable and the HSE will have to deal with it, more sympathetically. Just sending out demands or legal letters is not appropriate. In fact, subjecting an elderly, vulnerable person to such threats is tantamount to elder abuse. It might not be a bad thing if a solicitor pointed this out to the HSE.

Free legal advice is available through MABs, the Citizens Information Service, or the St Vincent de Paul. I would strongly advise the poster to contact them, if the HSE continue this atrocious behaviour.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/

Find your Local Service | St. Vincent de Paul - Ireland | SVP

We have 8 Local Offices locate around the country, if you cannot find what your are looking for or just want to simply talk to someone you can find your closest office below.
www.svp.ie www.svp.ie
 
I would advise people not to touch these life loans advertised by loan companies They will end up taking the best part of your home in return and leave you without enough to care for yourself in your later years. These companies are not explaining fully the downside of this kind of borrowing over 6% interest is devastating when it comes to paying it back
The HSE fair deal is a very good product for someone who owns a house they can use a portion of to get good care in their old age and still have something to leave the kids but these LIFE LOANS ruin it for you and will mess up your peace of mind in your most needy time your old age
greenhedge
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Widow. Agree with the first part. I was taking shots from all sides and of course, I would talk about the implications for Fair Deal and the implications for Social Welfare. I have no idea why I said probably.

I don't agree with the second part. The Life Loan is a good product. If the Fair Deal scheme is faulty - and I don't think it is - then that is not a problem for the Life Loan product.

And the criticism should be made of the Fair Deal Scheme and not the Life Loan.

It's very very hard to articulate all that on a live show with about 5 people shouting at me at the same time.

Brendan
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having taken our a life loan I would not recommend it to anybody as I am shocked with the amount of interest they don't mention compound interest when you inquire about the loan I am older and wiser now my advise is don't touch it
 
My understanding is that the terms and conditions explain all aspects of such products in detail. Seems that such products are suitable for some customers. Caveat emptor.
 
Looking for some opinions/advise please. If the Fair Deal scheme rejects a loan against the applicant's house due to an existing Life Loan that is owed the majority of the market value of the house - what happens when the house is sold? This is in a situation where it must be sold under the terms of the Life Loan within a certain period of vacation. And in the context that the applicant was approved for the Fair deal scheme with a weekly contribution (excluding the 7.5% of the value of their private home). Is the applicant's Personal Contribution now reassessed as in theory they would now have increased cash following the house sale?
 
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How much you pay towards your care​

After assessing your income and assets, the Financial Assessment will work out how much you pay towards your care.

You will pay:

  • 80% of your income (less deductions above) and
  • 7.5% of the value of your assets per year
The first €36,000 of your assets, or €72,000 for a couple, will not be counted in the Financial Assessment.

If you are part of a couple, you will contribute half of the amounts above, that is, 40% of your income and 3.75% of the value of your assets per year.

If your assets include land or property, the 7.5% contribution based on these assets may be deferred and [broken link removed]. You can defer paying the 7.5% contribution by applying for an optional nursing home loan.
 
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